jane mayer, as always.k hasen is a professor of law and political science at uc irvine school of law. he's the author of multiple books about the supreme court. and is quoted in jane mayer's piece. nice to see you. i want to just mention with jayne says you said you are quoted as saying that , there is a potential liability at stake for justice thomas. what is his exposure here? >> i think it's a potential liability for ginni thomas. that, is she could face civil or criminal liability for what she was trying to do to overturn the results of the legitimate election. and that is why under that statute the jane mentioned, the spouses significant interest is at stake. when justice thomas ruled on a case about whether certain documents can come in, or what's the definition of sedition is, or whether or not there was interference with an official proceeding, all kind of legal -- relating to not just the january 6th insurrection, but all of the events after november 3rd when donald trump tried to turn himself from

jane mayer of "the new yorker" has reported on ginni thomas, her activism, and the supreme court, and joins me now. i feel right at the top of course we all know that the presidential election was settled law, it was legally held and joe biden was the winner. looking at these texts that three outlets have confirmed for us jane overall what is the wife of the justice saying in these texts to the chief of staff of the president? >> well, she's arguing that the 2020 election was what she calls the greatest heist in american history. and that the results that were certified were a fraud. and that it had to be stopped. and that the chief of staff, mark meadows to trump, had to step in and do something to try to keep trump in office. >> these texts don't mention justice thomas by name and both justice thomas and ginni thomas have said they keep their work separate. first from chief of staff meadows, he wrote, this is a fight of good against evil, ginni thomas responded, thank you, needed that. this plus a conversation with my best friend just now. we do not know who that best friend was. we

jane mayer is the expert on this.she said she talked to folks that said justice thomas crossed the line, i want to see how far over that line they've gotten. >> there are codes of decorum. in the trump era we've seen the codes be trashed. and i would say ginnie thomas crashed that. just how a justice's wife should behave. did it go over over the line? i want to ask jane, when your spouse has an interest, you've got to recues. but does that financial interest or psychological interest? because in this case it seems to me thomas has a psychological interests. but we all do have on right to life interest on civil interests. so i want to ask jane that question about whether it really went over over the line. judy: and that's a question we can' ask. [laughter] but we'll try to -- we'll try to figure it out in the next few days. david brooks, john than capehart, so much to think about this week. thank you both. thank you. ♪ judy: as we reported president biden and the european you onannounced plans to enable europe to becom

with us now to talk about this and more jane mayer, the chief washington correspondent at the new yorker, she has been covering guinea thomas and clarence thomas to err years and recently wrote an article. also with me in new york s.e. cupp and oliver darcy. jane, you have been on the supreme court beat for quite a while. tell us what was important about this week, the revelations from cnn and cbs and the "washington post" actually revealing these texts that are in the possession of the 1-6 committee. this is a puzzle piece we had not filled in until now. >> what's happened now is that a relatively old story which is guinea thomas' activism which has been apparent almost since the time that clarence thomas joined the court has crossed a new line. i think this story started developing when ginni thomas went to facebook and started posting her excitement about the january 6th protests and that's what caught my eye and i think the eye of a number of other reporters. she came out and she embraced the idea of the maga protests and it was clear that she was all in on the sort of stop the steal