jane mcglenn. she's a senior researcher at the monterrey initiative in russian studies in oxford, and where she joins me now. doctor rickland good to see you again. a 36 hours these fire ukraine says it's all about grassy and propaganda. what do you make of him? i agree with the koreans and the ticket was days, voices that you, that you just interviewed, that you just read that i didn't see any strategical reason that ukraine should should agree to the ceasefire one because it's not in their interests right now. their interest being of course, to save as many people as possible from, from a rational occupation and execution. scott. secondly, i do think it's impossible to believe the russians. there's been a litany of a failed sci fi, a since the conflict originally began in 2014. but also you've instances, full scale invasion, for example, in mary pull back in march and the russians agreed as he's fire and then showed the refugee convoys heard. i think that this even the author of those, he's fine.