penn well-to-do merchant who was a dedicated abolitionist contributed a lot of money they went to jared smith. whites were contributing money and taking part in activities, but mostly activity is by free blacks in many are anonymous or unknown to us. black dockworkers. fugitives who came in hidden on ships dockworkers would notify. blacks worked at the railroad depots for blacks who worked in hotels as cooks for domestic workers for seven or came to the hotel with this way they would say, look, you you can become free if you want. their activity there activity was important. why don't we hear more about it? after the civil war the white abolitionist wrote the long histories. they wrote their memoirs the underground railroad and there's a lot of valuable information but they tended to make it a white into price giving assistance to help was black people commend the heroes with the white abolitionists the story was skewed in these reminiscences and it has taken a long time for scholars to put the free black communities back at the center of assistance to fugitive slaves. >> indeed, you mentione

they went to jared smith a wealthy upstate abolitionists. so whites were contributing money and taking part in the activities but most of it to betty is by free blacks and many of them are totally anonymous or unknown to us. black dockworkers for example they were fugitives who were hidden on ships. dockworkers notified local abolitionist activist. send them to the antislavery office. blacks who worked at the railroad. blacks who worked in hotels as cooks or domestic workers. of the seven or came to the hotel in new york as a slave they would say you can become free if you want. their activity was very important. why don't we hear more about that? you know after the civil war the white abolitionist wrote their own histories. they wrote their memoirs. they wrote about the underground railroad and even though there's a lot of valuable information they tended to make this a white enterprise in giving assistance to helpless black people. the heroes were the white abolitionist. i'm not trying to deny that in the slightest but the story was skewed

. >> these are the other bad people that she's been able to get the death penalty from, jared loughner, susan smiththee. >> you have judy clarke saying you know what, she believes him and she's telling me that he's wrong. but you have to use a few other things. >> there's a prosecution side. a lot of news going on. thank you so much randy. >>> the dzhokhar tsarnaev boston bombing case brings the debate about the death penalty to a whole different level in my mind. you're going to always have people who are for to death penalty and those who are not. i think we should look at islamic terrorisms whose only mission in live is to kill americans. if you don't send islamic terrorists to death that sends a message to the outside world and to any terrorist that we're weak. i say this with a lot of deep thought on the matter i covered the execution of the oklahoma bomber timothy mcveigh i have seen both sides of the issue, i have interviewed death row inmates during their last days, i have heard the electric chair reving up and going through its testing cycle. i have reported countless times on the convict'

ted, susan smith. >> jared. charles: absolutely amazing. she has a remarkable track-record. does she pull i this off? >> she stood up at the opening and conceited guilt. everybody was scratching their head. i talked to a a number of friends. the case was so strong, that's the approach. but lisa's point, really good point is that when she said the brother, you know, corrupted him, that doesn't negate guilt. that's irrelevant in the first part. now it's highly relevant. >> i think what i learned in the oj case, judge, is that the judge can almost determine the outcome of these. maybe you'll be offended by that remark. it really feels like the judge's orders to the jury at the very end almost at least tilts the final verdict. >> well, the instructions are what they are. the judge has typically standard instructions or instructions that are governed by law. it's not like the judge is deciding what i will tell the jury to do. charles: disregard this. disregard this. >> more of the influence could come from decisions on what to allow in and what not to allow in. as doug pointed ou

jared loughner. ted kaczynski, "the unabomber." susan smith in a minivan in the bomber. olympics bomber eric rudolph. speaking of 9/11, zacarias moussaoui considered the 20th hijacker got a life sentence. she is very successful in the past. how does she do it? >> she did it, because she gave up something during the trial like she did in the boston bombing trial. she scored points with the jury, especially in the boston bombing trial coming out saying he did this but it person deserves to live because he was influenced by his brother. so she actually gains credibility with the jury in the underlying trial. what she does, martha, is she sets up the death penalty phase in the case in chief. and that is what she is really, really good at. martha: she goes very much into the person's history in spaining how they might have gotten to this point. at one point she said, if it weren't for tamerlan, the older brother, none of this ever would have happened. how powerful an argument is that for these jurors, brian? >> well, i think she has been successful