jaron lanier thanks for joining me on up front the new york times just published a bombshell report revealing that facebook knew about russian meddling in the u.s. elections fail to penalize then presidential candidate donald trump for posting racist content. compromised its uses data privacy and tried to smear its critics as anti semites to quote from the times headline facebook strategy was to delay deny and deflect you know facebook i'm sure you've probably interacted with does any of that surprise you what's your reaction to this report. well. i'm not entirely surprised by the report of the some of the details are surprising and shocking i think from the facebook point of view and from zucker bricks point of view he is always in what he perceives as a life or death struggle either facebook controls the world or it dies he doesn't perceive any kind of in-between outcome and so therefore there's a kind of an ethic of anything at all is allowed because it's either survival or total domination or total death and so if you perceive this all or nothing world which i think is a false perception