host: jason deparle, your thoughts on that. guest: the caller at the end raised a point that political scientists might call it moral hazard. and do you make these people at the margin less likely to work for for themselves? we have added 11 million people to the food stamp it roll over the past two years. there is a risk that some of them will find it more comfortable to be on the food stamp rolls and somehow produce their own efforts to support themselves -- reduce their own efforts to support themselves. i do not know if there is a way around that. you run those risks. there are incentives, and for some populations there are time limits to get people off the program. but it is endemic in any kind of assistance program. you have to weigh it against the other risks. host: what we talked to the mayors of mesa, arizona, and the mayor of philadelphia, we mentioned, as is. -- we mention of homelessness. the mayor of mesa said it was not problem and the mayor of philadelphia said it was on the decline and he wants to be the first o

the moderator for today's discussion is jason deparle, a reporter at the "new york times" who has writtenut u.s. poverty. in the packets on your chairs, there is an article he wrote recently which explores the mind-boggling complexity of the american social safety net. his book, published in 2004, " american dreams, three women, 10 children, and nations tried to win welfare" chronicles the struggles of the welfare system. let me turn it over to you. >> thank you. about one year ago, my editor approached me and said he had been thinking about the recession and had one question -- how strong is the safety net? it was a seemingly simple question, but it has a simple answer and there is no single safety net. there are instead multiple safety nets, a food safety net, housing say that, a medical safety net, and income safety net. each has its own rules, finances, incentives and culture. food stamps emphasizes about reached to bring in the needy. cash welfare and assizes diversion to keep all but the media's out. there is great variation within programs by state and county. tennessee gets food s

the moderator today is jason deparle. n the packet on your chair is an article that jason wrote of the american social safety net. his book published in 2003 "american dreams: three women, 10 kids, and a nation's drive to end welfare, the overhaul of the welfare system." with that, let me turn it over to you jason and -- >> thank you. about a year ago my editor approached me and said he'd been thinking about the recession and had one question. how strong is the safety net? it was a seemingly simple question, or at least he thought it was. of course, it has no simple answer. and there is no single safety net. there are instead multiple safety nets, a food safety net, a housing safety net, a medical safety net, and income safety net. each has its own rules, it's own finances, incentives, history, it's own culture. food stamps brings the needy in. on top of that, there's great variation within programs by state or even by county. tennessee gets food stamps to something like 90% of the people who qualify for them, while califo