perry mccaffrey here, and jason seriously, a u.s. navy and army special forces veteran.h us. mccaffrey, when you talk about what losing prigozhin or the wagner forces would mean for russia's military, as a military blow to russia, it is because of their particularly brutal and violent tactics that they've had any battlefield successes at all. just brought in the lens a little bit for us, and talk about this force in russia. and this now thorn and international humiliation for putin. >> well, i think the bottom line is the humiliation of putin. there is just absolutely no way that he hasn't been massively weakened by this. the wagner group probably is around 25,000 troops, maybe 10,000 civilian contractors. the russian armed forces is various pieces of its national guard, interior ministry, fsb, 1.4 million. so, i think wagner group, prigozhin, thought he could get them to flip to him. on the face of it, it didn't make any sense. this guy is a criminal, the leadership of the wagner group tends to be motivated by greed. they get the steal, gold diamonds, oil in africa and