state anchair of the congressional progressive caucus, pramila jayapal. congresswoman pramila jayapal, thank you very much for being with us. you have laid down what has been described as an ultimatum that, unless the senate passes this $3.5 trillio reconciliation bill, you and other members of the progressive caucus will not support the infrastructure legislation which we know there is support for in both parties. why not? >> well, judy, thanks so much for having me on. the key here is we are willing and able and ready to vote for both bills that deliver the entirety of the president's agenda to his desk. that is both the infrastructure bill and the reconciliation bill. but the agreement was made in the senate and, in fact, just today, 11 senators put out a statement saying that the only reason they voted for the bipartisan bill out of the

jayapal leads. and no, the progressives do not want to purposely, you know, jump into the pool of piranhas and hurt the country for no reason. that's what the republicans are doing. the progressives have the opposite plan. today, today, are voting to keep the government open and to raise the debt ceiling so we don't hit those crises, but they're also working on this positive legislative agenda in a very muscular way. today they are flexing their muscles as progressives, counting their members of whom there are many. taking a stand today and tonight that they want to go big. they want the president's bill to pass in its entirety, this $3.5 trillion bill that encompasses much of the agenda for the whole first term. they do not want to pass this bipartisan bill. the progressives are insisting that nobody is going to get anything until the infrastructure bill, the big one, moves as well. pramila jayapal in response to questions that you just saw, she said they're not bluffing? >> are these packages stil

which pramila jayapal leads. i know the progressives do not want to purposely jump into the pool of the product and smashed the country up to the debt ceiling in, hurt the country for no reason. that's what the republicans are doing. the progressives have the opposite, they today are voting to keep the government open and to extend the debt ceiling so we don't hit those crises. but they are also working on this positive agenda very positively. we are flexing their muscles, counting their members for whom there are many, taking a stand today and tonight. but they want to go big. they want the president bill to pass it entirety, it's three and a half trillion dollar bill that encompasses much of his agenda for his whole first term. they would not -- for the small bipartisan bill, what some republicans want, and what conservative democrats say they are prioritizing. the priorities are insisting. nobody's gonna get anything unless the infrastructure bill, the big one moves as well. pramila jayapal in response to ques

and congresswoman jayapal joins me now. been pretty clear on this from day one. i'm not sure people are tracking all of this, which is fine. i don't think it matters that much. what matters is the outcome. why, though, explain your position right now. there is a bill that passed the senate. first of all, can we talk about the content of that bill and your caucuses just on the content of it before we get to process, before we get to the gain theory prisoner's dilemma that is set up. >> yes, absolutely, and great to see you, chris. so five months ago yesterday, the president made that journey from the white house to capitol hill and he laid out had his build back better agenda, and we all got up and cheered. i was in the chamber that night. we all got up and cheered for it because it was the agenda that we ran on, that he put forward as president, and we said we would deliver to his desk. then it got split into two bills. >> yeah. >> one bill is this infrastructure bill that is a much narrower, smaller piece that is kind of a

our next guest congresswoman pramila jayapal. losi is no doubt less troubled by senat sander protocol breach thanhe is by the reluance osenato joe manchin and kyrsten sinema we to come to an agreement with e rest of the senate democrats and the prident. so once again today president joe biden had ten invidual e-on-one meetings with senator joe mahin and senator kyrsten sinema who are fast becoming the senators wi the most entries in e biden white house admitted to records. and once again, frustring all the rest of the decrats, setor manchin and senator kyrsn sinema, have not said anything puicly that indicates why theyre negotiating forso long, or whether even negotiating. about today senar manchin said ectly the same kind of thing he said the very first time he discussed this legislatn at the white house months ago. he said >> we understand getting to know ea other better and being understanding what his vision for the country's and ings he wants to do and i respect a appreciate all. that and he's very good at listening at my co

that was representative pramila jayapal. she is the chairwoman of the progressive caucus for the democrats essentially standing firm that if a vote happens on the bipartisan infrastructure bill today in the house, she says the votes aren't there from her caucus. she is demanding that there is a reconciliation bill passed by both chambers before they are willing to vote yes on the bipartisan infrastructure bill. let me bring in cnn's lauren fox on capitol hill and kaitlan collins at the white house. i don't know where this leaves us, lauren, because how can there be a vote today if they aren't there? >> digging in here, ana, i think one thing that was very notable about this press conference that was just held with the progressives is that jayapal is coming just a little bit over an hour after manchin revealed that 1.5 trillion is his top line. also a document circulating that cnn has confirmed the authenticity of that included a lot of details about what manchin would accept when it came to climate change, when it came to ta

especially if congresswoman jayapal's numbers are what they said they are. she said more than half her caucus would hold firm and vote no. that means 45 to 50 members. at most we know publicly about four or five republicans that have said they're willing to break ranks and vote for this. and we also know that the house minority leader kevin mccarthy is specifically whipping his members against this measure. he does not want republicans to deliver this victory for the house speaker nancy pelosi. so because these margins are so great, it would be hard to envision a scenario by which the house speaker could peel off enough progressive votes that would equal the number of republicans that would vote for it. and i would also make one other point about this, wolf, also to kasie's point, congresswoman jayapal never said don't delay the vote. in fact she said today, bring it to the floor, we're prepared to vote no. she's almost daring the house speaker to do that. so they're almost ready for the house speaker to call their bluff. >> kaitlan, the president's approval

congresswoman pramila jayapal come back again and keep us updated on this. i appreciate. >> thank you, chris. >> all right, there's even more breaking news tonight out of congress. we have brand-new subpoenas. a whole crop of them from the january six committee that give an interesting window into where this investigation is headed, what we know. after this. after this

congresswoman pramila jayapal come back again and keep us updated on this, i appreciate it. >>> thank you, chris. there's more breaking news out of congress. we have brand new subpoenas, a whole crop of them from the january 6th committee that give an interesting window into where this investigation is headed. what we know, after this. this investigation is headed what we know, after this we don't use just any wipe, we use dawn disinfecting wipes. they're tough enough to cut through greasy messes, yet gentle enough to clean the surfaces that matter most. all while killing 99.9% of bacteria and viruses. get the grease fighting power of dawn in a disinfecting wipe. who pays more for prescription drugs

brian schatz the house members attending the meeting of the liberal groups were congresswoman pramila jayapal, congressmen jim mcgovern the chair of the rules committee,

reporter: are you going to talk to jayapal? senator manchin: if they want to talk i will sit down. happy to. reporter: so it sounds like the $1.5 trillion and all of the stipulations you signed onto at the end of july, that's your final offer and that will not change? senator manchin: first of all, at this -- at that point in time, i was in favor on moving on this type of a legislation. i was not trying to be the flying anointment at all. i've never been. i've never been a liberal in any way shape of the form. no one ever thought i was. i've been a governor. i've been secretary of state. i've been state legislator and u.s. senator and i have voted pretty consistently all my life. i don't fault any of them who believe they're much more progressive and much more liberal. god bless them. i guess we need to elect more liberals. i am not asking them to change. i'm willing to come from zero to $1 .5 trillion. i am just saying -- reporter: senator, can i ask you about the infrastructure bill? on the infrastructure bill, this is my question, your $1.5 trillion line, are you willing to risk

congresswoman pramila jayapal, chair of the progressive caucus, joins us next. joins us next. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression i just ccan take you my way to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clical sties, had no substantialmpact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have aincreased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life threatening... ...or uncontrollable muscle movements, the are not all the ri. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor about latuda and pay as little as $0 for your first prescription.

what jayapal and pelosi talked about and jayapal emerged saying a planned vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill in the house may be forced to be delayed because there just aren't enough progressive votes to put it over the finish line. but big problem is democrats in the house have not agreed as to what that $3.5 trillion package should look like, which priorities should be funded and for how much. house speaker nancy pelosi has said she's only committed to a package that will be as much as $3.5 trillion, but she hasn't said how that money will be spent. that will be key in this process moving forward and then, of course, there's the senate and how they play in all of this. there are two key senators, both joe manchin of west virginia and keertsin sinema of arizona who said they won't support a package as expensive as $3.5 bill crop and right now democrats are in a staring contest. that's one of the issues that members of congress are dealing with. there's also the government spending plan and the fact that the government could run out of money in the next couple of weeks and the governmen

our chairwoman pramila jayapal had a phone call and a conversation with sinema and we don't be closelyonitoring the work that the speaker, the majority leader and the white house is doing in bringing progress and bringing progress on these bills. what we are waiting for is what is it that they are interested in seeing changed so that we can move this legislation forward. >> so what are you willing to compromise on? i'm going to -- how much lower than $3.5 trillion and so on. but what are you willing to compromise on? >> what we are looking to do is to deliver on behalf of our constituents in regards to climate change, to deliver on drug pricing, to deliver on child care, and to deliver on fair taxation. how far they are willing to go on that is something that we are willing to have a conversation on. it's been talked about quite a lot in our caucus and with the senators just how much of a significant progress and investment we want to make in these areas. and we continue to wait to hear what kind of significant changes and investments they're willing to make in their constituents' live

pramila jayapal, you are the center right now it's great to have you. here >> it's great to see rachel. >> what happened tonight in the democratic caucus meeting, i know you want to tell us all of it, but what can we understand from that closed door session? >> well i think it's important that those caucus meetings, that people want to be heard. so there is a lot of people saying how they feel. and i think that what i got out of it is that we need to pass both bills. just like how you described. and it was really important that you said, delay means dead. i think this is something that people need to understand. we're already at the end of september and if there is any piece of this reconciliation bill that isn't agreed to by the senate and the house, and if that delay goes on and on, as it does here when you don't have urgency, when you don't have a deadline, when you don't have a reason for momentum, this thing is dead. and i think that is when we look at why we are doing what we're doing, and i just want to emphasize again, there are nine democrats m

. >>> jayapal.re was a promised deadline to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill that's day s away. congresswoman jayapal will join "morning joe" later to discuss the meeting. >>> joining us now is jake sherman, an msnbc contributor and a reporter for politico. what progress was made yesterday between president biden and various democrats. >> well, jon, they're talking. there's a lot to go over here. they're on different pages on nearly everything including the topline number. as you know, $3.5 trillion is the number they're working off. that will have to be paired bag to something smaller. they didn't make any progress on that. and there's also a ton of policies outstanding when it comes to reconciliation andmedi. so just a whole host of issues. as you noted, there's this infrastructure vote on monday, and progressives are threatening to bring it down to vote against it in order to maintain their leverage on the larger package. this is typical capitol behavior. it's not unusual. they will vot

senator amy klobuchar, and congresswoman pramila jayapal, join me on the fight ahead. then, we're going to have to convince the public white officials why they should be empowered in a house like. this >> trump's first fda commissioner on what went so long at the covid response, and how to get it right the next time. he joins me live tonight. plus >> this is real. it is not made up, there's nobody here that engages in fantasies. >> it wasn't true and the trump can pay knew it. the truth about the election lies, in all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york i'm chris hayes, the president of the united states met with democratic legislators today in a attempt to pull off what would honestly be the most incredible act of legislative sorcery since president lyndon b. johnson laid out his agenda for a great society in the 19 sixties. introduced a set of domestic programs to do things that could eliminate poverty, and racial injustice. of course he did that with large majorities. large majorities, joe biden doesn't have. joe biden right now is trying to do that h

we're going to talk with pramila jayapal about where things stand at this hour. now it is also recall day in california. voters in that state decide if governor gavin newsome should remaun in office. this vote comes as senate democrats put forward a new ill to protect voting rights. we're going to talk with alex padilla about the path forward. now in texas, more than 300,000 homes and businesses are without power after tropical storm nicholas made land fall. bringing high ones and heavy rains to the gulf coast. some places could see up to 20 inches of rain from this storm. we begin with the latest out of afghanistan with richard engel live in kabul for us. and our must be might be international affairs analyst. let's start with you on the ground, richard. we have secretary of state anthony blinken saying the threat from isis and al qaeda has grown. on the other hand, we're top intelligence officials saying that al qaeda could rebuild in a year in afghanistan. and then we have people like lindsey graham insisting the country is on the cusp of a civil war. give us

i mean, you have got people like congressman jayapal saying it should be $6.5 trillion. you are lucky i cut it in half. and you have the moderates saying forget 3.5. i mean, this has really fall apart. >> well, of course, we are there on the infrastructure package. we agreed on that and as i said, bernie sanders with warren and 50 democrats and 19 republicans agreed on that and these are two separate packages. they're -- right? they are distinct issues and we should consider them separately. and then, you know, we are working through the other one. it is a really important package. there's so many issues like climate and there is so many things that are so important in there. we are working together on that. it takes time but the bottom line is we are at the able. so it just doesn't make any sense to stop one while working on the other. that's why i am optimistic that we will do it and, you know, of course, have assurances that as is happening right now that we will keep working on the other one. so yes, i'm optimistic. it's critically important. the white house is behin

jayapal represents the progressive, and the other side is represented by terry mccalluf.idn't send democrats to washington to chitchat. they need to get this done. he was talking about a host of policies he thinks is important, and his argument is that the districts that are battlegrounds in the next election and the states that are, have a more diverse electorate. it is not packed full of progressives, and the democrats need to appeal to that more diverse electorate. joe biden has a lot of challenges, but these challenges are all within his own party. he is the leader of those party and these are challenges he has to solve. >> brennan: you put your finger on why there is this rush to get things done before 2022, but this new poll out from pew shows that the president's approval rating is down with young voters, some 14 percentage points, and down 16 points among latinos, and 18 points among african-americans. these groups really helped deliver the white house to president biden. so how can he deal with anger among these particular parts of the electorate? >> you know, wh

as we're at this table right now though, she is meeting with pramila jayapal, the leader of the progressives and several moderate democrats including stephanie murphy. they are all in her office right now together so i think a lot of us are hoping that if anything does change it will come after this meeting and that's what we're waiting to see. that and whatever joe manchin says at his press conference. >> i think heather said something real important which is after they fund the resolution to keep the government going, that's really important. why would you throw blood in the water for republicans who are still going, you know, amendment by amendment in the senate now and then it goes to the house, like they only have until midnight. it's a failure for both parties but particularly the democrats in charge if the government were to shut down. she's got to get order of business number one off the table and out of the way first before she pulls the bill or a miracle materializes. >> solve one problem and then move on to the other problem. you could solve that problem if you could at least reac

joining us is congresswoman jayapal who chairs the progressive caucus. the infrastructure bill if the spending package doesn't pass. if democrats lose it all because you and others stood on principle would you regret that choice looking back? >> anderson, it's good to be with you tonight. the two bills comprise the build back better agenda that the president laid out for us in front of congress. and so when we met with the president yesterday he reiterated that he wants both of these bills and the deal that was passed when the bipartisan bill passed the senate was that both bills would proceed in the house because we just cannot afford to leave behind child care, leave behind paid leave and not take on climate change, and so that is still our position. we will very happily vote for both bills as soon as the reconciliation bill is passed and then we will vote for the infrastructure bill and we intend to do that. we are this close and this close to getting it done and we're excited to deliver that to the president. >> i understand look, everything is a neg

congresswoman jayapal joining san francisco mayor breaking covid rules.ernor whitmer breaking laws from covid passports on down. dr. greg murphy, covid confusion reigning in washington. still no osha rules for businesses, this is two weeks after the president mandated vaccines. also state health officials confused over mixed messaging including from dr. fauci. we have the white house also accused of playing politics, rationing antibody treatments to the states. we have a lot of show coming up. stay right there. >> certainly looks luke they're trying to prioritize moving that antibody treatment away from red states to blue states. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ got a couple of bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. what do you say we see what this bird can do? woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. looks like we're walking, kid. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin

and congresswoman jayapal joins us now. it's great to have you on the show.e potential that the entire party will be able to come together and agree something and move forward? >> mika, thank you so much, great to see you. hope you are safe, please stay safe out there. it was a really important and productive meeting. we congratulated the president on stepping into make sure that we are all working on delivering the beyerty of his agenda to his desk. that's what he wanted as well. we have been clear from the time he laid back the build back better for congress which includes things like child care and free leave and making sure we are taking on that climate change issue that we are seeing across the country. all of these things are critical. that was his message yesterday. we need to deliver both infrastructure bill and reconciliation bill in his desk because we can't leave people behind. >> how important can democrats work together and further charged as moderates and progressives can meet in the middle. it would make both sides uncomfortable in some ways. >

. >> pramila jayapal said she will vote against this with half of her caucus if it has not passed congress by then. >> we'll all cross these bridges when we come to them. this is called the legislative process. >> division in the democratic ranks, centered around a $3.5 trillion budget plan. liberals are holding the bipartisan infrastructure plan hostage in order to get that giant budget bill passed. the problem some members of their own party say that price tag, $3.5 trillion, is too high. all of this as the white house faces yet another, a potential of an economic problem, the house voting to avoid a government shutdown and increase the borrowing limit, doesn't have the votes in the senate, which means the democrats may be forced to act alone to avoid a debt crisis. that would be bad. cnn congressional correspondent lauren fox and white house correspondent jeremy diamond are following all of this this morning. on the hill what's happening? i mean, is there a way to a deal here. there is a case of friendly fire. democrats versus democrats. is there a path out of this? >> reporter: well, t

this week is the stress test for that proposition joining us now is congresswoman pramila jayapal, chair of the progres progressive caucus, you are at the center of the storm. thank you for being here. >> great to see you as always. rachel. >> what happened tonight in the democratic caucus meeting. i know you won't tell us all of it, but what can you tell us is the news out of that closed door session. >> i think it's important at those caucus meetings, people want to be heard there's a lot of people saying how they feel, and i think that what i got out of it is we need to pass both bills just like you described, and it was really important when you said delay means death. i think this is something that people need to understand. we're already at the end of september. and if there is any piece of this reconciliation bill that isn't agreed to by the senate and the house and if that delay goes on and on as it does here when you don't have urgency, when you don't have a deadline, when you don't have a reason for momentum, this thing is dead and, you know, and i think that is when we look at

the bill congress woman pramila jayapal is now calling the small infrastructure bill is not the largest infrastructure bill in history, and has already passed the senate with a bike artisan vote. this afternoon senator bernie saners feature to read a statement with ten other democratic senators saying we . the ten democratic senator joining is kirsten gillbrand senator, mazie hirono, senator ed markey, senator alex padilla, senator tina smith, senator jeff merkley, brian schatz,. that written statement of the senators reminded all the democrats in congress of the original deal that all of the democrats and congress agreed to at the beginning of the legislative process earlier this summer. >> leading off our discussion tonight is someone who was in the room with the president today, democratic congresswoman suzan delbene of the state of washington, she is the vice chair of the house winds and means committee. congresswoman suzan delbene, thank you very much for joining us. you have the floor. you can just tell us word for word everything joe biden said. everything everyone in the room sa

delay it but what i was struck most by today was when she was asked about it, when congresswoman jayapalte it down. they're not afraid to do that. and that position has not changed over the course of these negotiations. >> so, phil, how is president biden taking all of this in? >> you know, it's interesting, we haven't heard from the president or any white house officials. jen psaki is scheduled to brief. it's unclear if perhaps we will hear from the president today. obviously, a very perilous moment for his entire agenda, not just because of the bipartisan infrastructure bill that very clearly at this point doesn't have the votes but also just the sheer scale of the divide between where senator manchin is and when progressives are and keep in mind, where progressives are, are where the president was. this is the plan he proposed and kpand on. this is the plan that he thought could be transformative for the country's economy. now he's going to have to scale it back. and here's why. you can have as many transformative plans as you want. it doesn't matter if you don't have the votes for th

jayapal is not known for being a liar and not known for being a brinksman type player.m both, we are not going to do it. the reconciliation bill you could argue is a bigger part of biden's agenda that even the infrastructure bill. and this had been dismissed along the way as manchin and sinema and now it's as much about the house as it is the senate. what am i missing in your confidence? >> because when we in august agreed on this and came together and knew we had a bill that came out of the senate with everywhere one from bernie sanders to elizabeth warning to joe manchin voting for it, and we said we have so many issues that are facing the country and, you know, better than anybody, the roads, bridges, tunnels, climate change resiliency, we have to get that done. we agreed, every single democrat voted to bring up it up in september. we also agreed to begin work on reconciliation, which we have been doing and everyone i got it give our chairs an incredible sense of gratitude for all they have done to bring this bill along and we are almost there but we are still workin

be very clear, we're the only people in the room right now that said we want both bills done. >> jayapal is ready to place blame. progressives are threatening to sink the bill over reconciliation leaving a real possibility democrats get neither and nothing. do you accept that as a realistic possibility now? >> i really don't. i actually think that, in my conversations with both progressives -- and i am a progressive -- and the moderates, that everybody shares the goals of getting both of these packages done. the moderates definitely want access to child care and pre-k education and paid family medical leave and community college. the moderates want that as well. i think ultimately, as i've been telling them for four months, and my job has been herding democratic cats. i said you can posture all you want and you should because you can stand up for your principles and priorities, but you're all going to vote for this. by the way, have you met nancy pelosi? are we going to get it done next week? no, there's virtually no chance of getting it done next week. we don't have a deadline on this.

the second road block, progressives led by caucus chair jayapal was threatening to block the president'srastructure bill in a house vote on monday and they still are. the third road block, it was unclear how much appetite eared side progressives or moderates had for further compromise on the overall package and that's still unclear. to make matters a bit more confusing this morning senate majority leader chuck schumer joined house speaker pelosi's weekly press conference and gave a vague encrypted announcement about the way forward, seemingly to reassure moderates concerned about the size of these packages. >> the white house, the house and the senate have reached agreement on a framework that will pay for any final negotiated agreement. so the revenue side of this we have an agreement on. okay? thank you. a framework. an agreement of a framework. >> we have no details on what this agreement of a framework even looks like and neither do top democrats that we've spoken to. it shows you just how far democrats still have to go, that in the wake of all of these meetings at the white house le

. >> congresswoman jayapal, we will continue to watch. thank you very much for talking about it. >> thank you. >> right now the news continues and we'll hand it over to chris. >> i am chris cuomo, welcome to prime time. we have two breaking stories developing on our watch. first, the january 6th committee said it would not ask nicely and it hasn't. four subpoenas to trump's four horsemen, mark meadows, steve bannon and scavino and patel. a subpoena implies no wrongdoing on the part of any of those men. it's just a demand that they must come testify. why them? the chairman of the committee says all four had communications with the white house or were working in it or in the days leading up to the insurrection were involved and we're going to unpack what all that means. also, we're going unpack strategies afoot for all of those men to say nothing at all. we also have exclusive new details in the gabby petito case, on top of the federal arrest warrant has been issued for brian laundrie, the fiance of petito that remains nowhere to be found.

>> well, i've spoken quite a bit to jayapal, and we've -- to congresswoman jayapal. and let me tell you what i said to her and what i said all week long, that for me, reconciliation, what is in there, is critically important to the country and to my district. right? there are resources to fight climate change. we're going to reinstate the taxes and get taxes down in my district. there is child care in there. but what is also important is we have to get done this first package that again had 69 senators vote on it in the beginning of august and has been sitting in the house. in there are resources to fix our roads, bridges, tunnels. in new jersey, we have a lot of potholes, they're one of the worst roads in the country, and we have roads that are 100 years old between new york and new jersey. we have to fix critical infrastructure like that. and with climate resiliency, you saw the effects of hurricane ida, which affected my state so badly. so we've got to get it done. there are 200 million jobs. but that doesn't mean we can't do both. there is separate pieces of legi

on friday i asked representative jayapal whether or not she was going to be supporting that bipartisan infrastructure bill given the fact the leadership was trying to rush through the $3.5 trillion proposal to make sure the progressives feel comfortable voting for the bipartisan infrastructure bill and jayapal told me no, that unless they got support from manchin or sinema, she wasn't going to be voting for it. that's a sign of trouble ahead. she represents a caucus that's much bigger than a few democrats. it's dozens of democrats. there's a bigger issue of a potential government shutdown at the end of the week despite the fact the democrats would like to see a plan on infrastructure and the safety bill passed by the end of the week. the reality is if nothing happens on those items, nothing happens to the rest of the country. if nothing happens, you have a shutdown at the end of the week. senate democrats are going to attempt to bring up the bill that would fund the government through early december and raise the debt ceiling. the republicans are expected to reject that en masse. the d

congresswoman jayapal who leads the progressive caucus was on "morning joe" explaining her position asrelates to that monday vote. listen to this. >> nothing is sacred about monday at all. let's let the negotiations continue, let's get this done, let's deliver everything to the president's desk and i think we will then be able to say to the country government worked for you. >> jayapal is a good politician, she knows more negotiation isn't going to lead to a bigger bill, but sahil alluded to this, the trust deficit, this feeling like if everybody moves together both of these things can still pass but if one goes before the other the whole operation falls apart. how do you read the progressives and the way they're trying to handle the strategy there? >> well, they're trying to use whatever leverage they have. i have a lot of trust, speaking of trust, i have a lot of trust that nancy pelosi can land this plane. she is the person who promised the moderates a vote by monday and promised to link up the two packages. but at the end of the day i don't think the progressives want it hung aroun

congresswoman jayapal and senator sanders and others in the progressive caucus are standing strong.ust as the two senators, both manchin and cinema, continue to stand strong and hold out. isn't it curious, john, that the majority of the democrats in the caucus agree with this even though progressives certainly want more but they agree with this. and you have two senators who are holding out. the question becomes why? is senator sinema waiting for her checks to clear before she would say what it is she would cut or not cut? it is wrong. it is immoral. people are suffering. especially people of color are suffering the most disproportionately. they need to stand up and decide whose side they are actually on. if i was president biden, i would go ahead and set up shop in west virginia and let senator manchin know he will be bringing the west wing to west virginia until he stands up for the people and let senator sinema know he will be in arizona directly. stphrp jonathan, you have some experience here. how does that kind of heavy-handed pressure work with joe manchin? >> i think joe manc

we've got to get it done, and we will. >> well, the other side, jayapal said a small number of democratsike manchin and you and sinema are holding up the package. he's missed. sinema went three times yesterday and won't tell anyone what she wants. listen. >> i have no idea what she wants. i don't think her colleagues know what she wants. i don't think the president knows what she wants. i don't think house moderates know what she wants. we said let's get in a room. let's negotiate. let's come up with a deal. and i just don't understand it. the president carried her state. >> do you know what she wants? >> well, i'll tell you this. everyone is working around the clock, including senator sinema, on getting it done. she was at the white house yesterday. obviously, i wasn't in that meeting. all i know is great progress was made. and we're going keep working today. but, again, that doesn't mean these are two separate pieces of legislation. you don't hold up and not vote for an infrastructure package that is historic once in a century that will help fix everything from water, broadband, to fig

congresswoman jayapal of washington state joins us.er pelosi for more than an hour. what did you tell her? is there any sort of deal that's been reached? >> it was a wonderful meeting. you know, i just articulated again what i've been saying for the last 3 1/2 months, which is that we are looking forward as a progressive caucus to delivering both bills to the president's desk. we will vote for the infrastructure bill even though many of my members don't want to do that, frankly, because they think it's not just too small but it's got some problematic things in it. the speaker has been very strong on this message that we need to do both together. so we talked through that. i made sure she understood that we have over half of our caucus that remains committed to delivering only both the bills, not one at a time. and i also went through some of our top priorities, many of which have made it into the house bill as it stands. so it was a great conversation. i wanted to make sure she was very clear about where our members are. >> how many me

in fact, we caught up with the progressive leader, pramila jayapal of washington state. she is the leader of the progressive caucus. we asked her for her read on the manchin statement. and this is what she said. >> i can tell you that his statement has just probably created at least a bunch more votes on the house floor against the bipartisan bill. >> so that's jayapal saying the manchin statement allows her to corral even more progressives to hold firm and not vote yes tomorrow. so that leaves the ball in the court of the house speaker, nancy pelosi. will she delay this vote? will she just return back here to capitol hill from the white house, she told reporters that as of right now, it is still the plan to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill tomorrow. the big question is, where will the votes come to make it happen? and we should also point out, wolf, that this -- these negotiations, these intense negotiations over the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the reconciliation package, they come amidst two big issues the congress still has to deal with. that's the fu

i think what congresswoman jayapal said is that this will be delayed. she was right. the vote is being delayed. the reason is that they don't have the votes right now. speaker pelosi thinks that there is a pathway here, she is banding contra for 30 plus years. and she has learned one thing one truism about congress, is that you don't make progress by taking the pressure off. you take progress by putting the pressure on. and she believes that by setting this deadline she is going to be able to make some people come to jesus, as they say. and actually make some decisions here. and tried to move them off of these variant from positions. and you don't do that by moving the deadline and other. week you do that by saying by having the ball what do you need to get. they're >> so who do you think the pressure is on more here, david jolly? who do you think is under tremendous pressure to take might point here? . progressives or the so-called moderate? >> well amy and i would say that the democrats a large, because this is largely a pressure point of their own creation. we have

you have the congresswoman jayapal, chair of the progressive caucus. she says dozens of her members are prepared to vote no on infrastructure without agreement of reconciliation first. even without gop support, that doesn't get you to the majority that you need. what's you count? what giving you this sense of optimism? >> because i belve at the end of the day, especially how critically important this is to the president's agenda, not just to the country, the fact is we need t get this done. when this comes to the floor, and the speaker brings it to the floor, the votes will be there. i think it would be very hard to press the no button on hard-working men and women labor jobs and fighting climate change and fixing our roads and our bridges and o tunnels. i just don't believe when you have the largest infrastructure package in a century sitting there waiting for action that folks will vote no. listen, i understand the people's consternation and working so hard to also get a reconciliation package done, working around the clock to me that happen. i'm com

and jayapal, the chair of the progressive caucus, she has acted very responsively throughout this. she is advocating very strongly for her priorities and the priorities of the progressive caucus, but she has left enough of the door open to allow her to say we believe we can get bo of these done. we'll go ahead and not kill the bipartisan bill on thursday if it comes up for a vote on thursday, which the speaker has said it would. >> nawaz: a follow-up, and you said "if," and do you think that vote will happen on thursday? >> the last word i got from the speaker is yes. >> nawaz: i have to ask you about two other major things you have to deal with on your plate, and that is government funding and raising the debt ceiling. the republicans have blocked that bill that would do both. and you have some looloomingdeadlines, so what's e deal? >> we're going to pass tomorrow some looming resolutions, and the republicans and the democrats said they will support it. i think we'll get that done before the deadline on thursday night. as for the debt ceiling, according to yellen, we have to somew

i think what congresswoman jayapal said this morning, this vote will be delayed, she's right, the vote is being delayed. the reason is they don't have the votes right now. but speaker pelosi thinks there's a pathway here. she has been in congress for 30 plus years. and she has learned one thing, one truism about congress, which is you don't make progress by taking the pressure off, you make progress by putting the pressure on. and she believes that by setting this deadline, she's going to be able to make some people come to jesus, as they say, and actually make some decisions here and trying to move them off of these very entrenched positions. you don't do that by moving the deadline by a week, you get it by putting the pressure on. >> david jolly, who is under tremendous pressure, to take mike's point here that you get things done by using pressure, progressives or the so-called moderates? >> well, ayman, i would say the democrats at large, because this is largely a pressure point of their own creation, right? we have two bills. we have the $850 billion bipartisan infrastructure bill