even in matt whitaker wanted to get jeff berman unrecuse, i don't think he could have. this goes through ethics officials and this was cleared there. so you actually have a machinery that has worked pretty well. you have a president that wants to control this, to defame it. that's what a lot of allies have done. the president's folks will say, he's wasting opinions, he's asking questions. he didn't actually do anything and as a citizen, he is entitled to do that. we are prosecutors, so we can't make that effortmation. all we can do is till what the facts were. >> walk us through what happened with matt whitaker, starting with the time line, after jeff sessions was pushed out, so november to december at this point. >> right, it was after he was pushed out. it was around the time cnn is reporting we also had the president called whitaker very upset right after michael cohen had plead guilty to lying to congress. you remember that plea was in connection with the duration of time a trump tower moscow project was going on, in another phone call the president asked whitaker i

jeff berman hadn't been on the job fr loor a long time. so we have no potential issues with this sensitive investigation, it was the president's personal attorney, we're not going to involve somebody who was appointed by trump. let's address the trump ally. i think it's a fair point to say someone who is investigating christopher collins, who was one of donald trump's biggest and first supporters in congress, somebody who has indicted the russian leicester ciawyer, that somebody whose actions may be consistent with somebody who is a trump ally. y as one of my colleagues pointed out to me yesterday, there's been reporting this investigation into the trump inaugural committee, that the subpoena has jeff berman's name on it. when you start to look at kind of all these various examples and look at the investigations he's launched, those two characterization may not be accurate. >> other than the tweet, what have we heard from the white house? >> reporter: the tweets this morni morni morning has said it's a enemy of the people. >> did you ask a

around this time, the president asked whitaker if it was possible for jeff berman, who is the prosecutorsouthern district of new york, to un-recuse from the case. berman had recused because of some, i think, some matter involving his former launw firm. it's not clear what whitaker did after that, but jeff berman did not get in charge of that case, so it's not clear that whitaker did a whole lot. but again, even the fact of asking fits a pattern that we have seen with the president over and over. his lawyers would say, look, he's allowed to ask questions. that's what he's entitled to do. he's entitled to, you know, to raise questions sort of in defense of himself, as long as it doesn't cross a different line. other people may have a different interpretation of it. >> so, it's -- listen, cnn previously reported that the president expressed anger to whitaker about the cohen investigation. why did the president ultimately sour on whitaker? >> so, the president ultimately -- everybody starts out at a certain [ inaudible ] when the president first appoints them to something and you can only go

the idea of jeff berman unrecusing himself does not make sense. it is something that never happens. it is kind of laughable. he was recused being the justice department saying you are not going to be apart of the investigation. >> "the time" outlined how the president is trying to recuse him. >> the idea is whether he has discussion about it, um not disputing it. >> just the idea that this can reoccur in rare leife. >> jeff berman was an ali of president. the reason they say it makes a lot of sense. his earliest supporters in congress, christopher collins and he indicted a lawyer, at the infamous trump tower meeting in 2016. so, i don't see this has somebody been carrying trump's water throughout even he's not apart of the investigation. >> what do we know of the mueller report and when it will be finish? it is now february 20th and we have been hearing late potential is a a date. >> ken dilanian is pretty consistent on that. we have a reporter and outside of the grand jury room where mueller's activity have been seating. in addition to that, i have been taeld they have been work on

really despite jeff berman's clear recusal from this case, the times says the president attempted to interfere by making this request of whitaker. when matthew whitaker was asked about any conversations he had with the president about the michael cohen case when he testified before congress just a few weeks ago, whitaker refused to answer directly. take a listen. >> at no time has the white house asked for nor have i provided any promises or commitments concerning the special counsel's investigation or any other investigation. >> so just yesterday after the "new york times" report, the justice department issued a statement reiterating whitaker's words and saying mr. whitaker stands by his testimony. of course, the president has also denied the "new york times" story, calling it fake news. but that "new york times" report about these conversations and the president perhaps pressuring whitaker, still a big story here. >> and there's also this detail and it almost seemed dplo eed g over in this wide ranging piece that the "new york times" did about trump's legal team reaching out to pau

the first time i thought about the idea of the book i was in a conversation with jeff berman who is in the audience, thank you. anybody else? my dad doesn't ask a question. yes, tom. [laughter] >> yes. >> you dug in to the gut and day-to-day details of this campaign, how much -- how much are we different, how much are we the same these many decades later? a lot of disfunctionality, nature stays the same and respond to incentives that were given, a lot of disfunctionality now is systematic and not so much because we are so much worse or better. cnn comes around in 1980 and there's remarkable passages in the book about the last year of the presidency where he's going off to eastern shore for days at a time, you know, to read and write memos, no one in government especially at the white house and the administration and we are just overwhelmed and it short-changes our ability to think long-term, plan long-term and to do things that were long-term benefit to our country so that's not just about media, it's about structural and hurting our ability to think deeply and think long-term and it's

remember jeff berman recused himself because he was a trump campaign contributor. he engaged in a one on one interzu donald trump. he was a form partner of rudy giuliani. and there are solid reasons why berman should not be in charge of this investigation and why trump wanted him to be. >> if i'm not mistaken, i believe the times reporting is slightly erroneous. it didn't come from berman but a senior department of justice official, which is why he was taken off that case. do you think whitaker was truthful to your colleagues in the house? >> whitaker was, at best, misleading and deceptive. whether he committed purnlry is something we still don't know for sure at this point and the house is considering whether or not that should be referred. but there is cleary an effect of trump's attacks on the southern district, on the fbi, on the department of justice, on the rule of law because it undermines the morale of the fbi, it has an impact when they testify in court andh they interview witnesses. so this kind of pattern and practice of attacking law enforcement is reall

attorney jeff berman for the southern district of new york could take over the widening investigation told essentially no. this is the president on this "new york times" story today. >> i do not know who gave you that's -- that's more fake news. there is a lot of fake news out there. no, i didn't. i have a lot of respect for mr. whitaker. does a great job. very, very straight shooter, i watched him during the hearings, some of it. i thought he was exceptional. he is a very fine man. he should be given a lot of things by our nation. >> bret: ties to rudy giuliani had a >> the president denies it. we need to find out what the facts are. i think "the new york times" story is indicative of a larger pattern, so many of the details and the narratives that we've learned about are being told by self interested parties, whether it's james comey, andrew mccabe who gave this information to "the new york times." we have yet to hear from a neutral arbiter other than inspector general for it's in report which led to mccabe's denial today that he illegally leaked information. so who is the neutral a

york times" story today, which as you said talked about trump asking whitaker, you know, how come jeff berman who's running the southern district of new york was not overseeing the michael cohen case. jeffrey berman had to recuse himself and so his deputy has been overseeing the case. there was also conversation from what our reporting has showed between the president and whitaker about the investigations that are ongoing in the southern district of new york. the president was unhappy in the direction some of them were going. he was unhappy with the michael cohen pleading guilty, but then he was more unhappy about the fact that the department of justice out of the southern district of new york implicated him in those crimes of the hush payments, the money that went to the women who accused him of having an affair. so all of that culminated into perhaps more than one conversation. it's not entirely clear. and the president just voiced his displeasure at the fact these investigations are ongoing. we're told at no time did the president tell whitaker or direct whitaker to end any of these invest

jeff berman is a respected lawyer. >> shepard: is that the one according to the times that the president wanted put in charge of the cohen investigation? >> because the president nominated him and caused him to be the chief federal prosecutor in manhattan. mr. berman had the good ethical sense to say this involves donald trump? i'm not involved in it. >> the phone call, if the times reporting is accurate, is that phone call evidence -- the phone called would be evidence of what? >> corrupt intent. that is an effort to use the levers of power of the government for a corrupt purpose to deflect an investigation into himself or his allies. remember, the federal prosecutors in new york have two investigations going on. one was the investigation of michael cohen. and that is passed on to a guy named bob kazumi. used to by the way as the securities and exchange commission. he told a federal judge, this michael cohen, david pecker, paying woman to remain silent was orchestrated by donald trump. second investigation. one still going on here in new york, is the investigation of the trump inaugural

a couple things about that, first of all, the times says that jeff berman, the u.s.ttorney in new york had recused himself. actually, that's not quite accurate. u.s. attorneys under the rules cannot recuse themselves. he was recused by a senior official at the justice department because of the fact that he was not appointed by the president. he was the president's apparent choice for the job. he was put in there in an acting capacity by jeff sessions. when that term ended, he was appointed to fill out the term by a federal judge. that's how it works under the rules if there's no nominee acted on it. that's how berman got the job. he had been in a law firm with rudy giuliani, perhaps that's how the trump administration knew about him. he had been a prosecutor in the new york office, the southern district of new york before. he had a pretty high profile. the justice department asked about this today, gave us the following statement. it says it notes that whitaker said this, it quotes the language -- the words he spoke when he testified ten days or so ago before the hou

attorney who's recused in jeff berman so you have someone lower down the chain making key decisions, not going to go against justice department policy and this is the kind of decision that would have to be run by the deputy attorney general and the attorney general. if you were going to bring an indictment to the president of the united states, it would have to be reviewed. >> michael cohen coming into the hearing room right now. as we said, he was before the senate intelligence committee behind closed doors yesterday. he's going to be before the house intelligence committee tomorrow. very different from what we're seeing today when he's going to be in public. >> also on the impeachment thing, i agree with cecilia. they better have an end game. the president took a lot of criticism, rightfully, for closing down the government without an end game. if the democrats go down this road, they better have an end game because there's no way the senate is going to remove donald trump. >> we're coming up on 10:00 right now. we're covering of course the hearings of michael cohen, michael cohen

and i do think as chuck mentioned, look, i don't know exactly what went into jeff berman's decision to recuse himself but it seems to me that he did the honorable thing and the right thing and he left this investigation in the hands of career prosecutors, of professionals, who i am sure are following the facts and the law and taking that wherever it may lead. whether that be finding crimes or not. they will do their job as professionals. >> okay, chuck, back over to you. the president apparently is going to appoint jeffrey rosen, a veteran d.c. lawyer, as deputy a.g. there is the new a.g. in charge of the department of justice. are you convinced to your satisfaction based on the knowable facts that there are adults in the room to protect what's going on? >> i think so, brian. let me tell you why i'm hedging a bit. i don't know the first thing about mr. rosen but i do know a little bit about mr. barr. and while i don't share his politics, i believe he's an institutionalist. he knows the department. to the extent that the new deputy attorney general is an outsider to the department, he w

rakoff: i had a conversation about a week ago with jeff berman, the u.s. attorney general for the southern district of new york. he probably thought this was a guy the conversation. and the confidence of the c-span broadcast, -- in the confidence of the c-span broadcast, i will relay it. that the u.s.ning attorney's office was receiving few criminal referrals from the fcc than in prior years. both he and i have a great respect for the fcc. there are 100 different -- there are hundreds of different reasons. i don't want to make too much out of it. i said to them, what are you going to do about it? he said iparty taken the steps -- i have already taken the steps. i've arranged for every member of the fraud unit, the unit that process these matters, to receive each morning a copy of the wall street journal. thank you so much for saying that. i did not give judge rakoff any financial anything for this panel. [laughter] >> i wanted to leave 15 minutes or more than that to audience questions. please read your hand. we don't have mike's. go ahead and speak. >> i

for potentially obstructing the mueller russia probe called matthew whitaker and said can you put jeff bermanttorney, in the southern district of new york, back in the investigation from which he recused himself. the president meddling in an investigation even though he knows he's under investigation for meddling in the other investigation. >> it also comes way after the president has been told that it's inappropriate for him to have this kind of contact with people at the doj and the fbi and not to talk about what's going on in the southern district of new york. what's very clear and what this reporting lays out for us is that he is very concerned about what's going on in the southern district of new york. there's been a lot of focus on the mueller investigation, but not a lot of focus the southern district of new york where the trump organization certainly has the most liability and the most concern. that's what i think this does. it also is interesting that he -- he wanted someone in that job in the southern district of new york who would ultimately protect him. the fact that berman, jeffr

attorney and trump ally jeff berman in charge of the southern district of new york investigation intohush money payments, he said, quote, no, not at all, i don't know who gave you that, and he described it as fake news. we'll turn the tape for those comments just moments from now. but we wanted to make sure we told you that, as that information came in to us. and just like the president predicted, his national emergency for the wall is heading to court. do all 16 states suing have standing? we'll break it down next. standing we'll break it down next >>> we're back now on msnbc. i'm peter alexander in today for katy tur. 16 states have joined a lawsuit against the president's plan to use a national emergency declaration to get funds to build his border wall. they argue it is unconstitutional to redirect money from funds intended for military construction, drug interception, and law enforcement under the pretext of a, quote, manufactured crisis. and their lawsuit turns the president's own words against him, words he first spoke to me the day he declared that emergency last week. >> will

really think that had there been any sort of reach-out, the southern district, and particularly jeff bermanell, would have handled it completely appropriately and my guess is it would have gone nowhere but a dead end street. >> and to be clear, you're referring to mr. berman, who has the job you used to have. he recused from part of this, which is why we've seen kazami step up and take part of the trump probes. what trump is trying to do in the accounts of the "new york times" is trying to get berman back in charge. you're saying even if trump was successful at that, you don't think he would bend to trump's will? >> no, i think it would float like a lead balloon. i really trust that if he had made that approach, it would have come out and it would have been handled appropriately and effectively. >> i want to ask you about immunity deals, which, of course, you guys enforce quite strictly. in fact, the last time you were on "the beat," you were explaining, you don't take any good enough, if you give anyone a deal. david pecker is in all kinds of trouble for all sorts of reasons, but one of th

he asked whether jeff berman, the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, and a trump ally, could be put in charge of the widening investigation." that's according to several american officials with direct knowledge of the call. the "times" also writes this, "mr. whitaker, who had privately told associates that part of his role at the justice department was to, quote, jump on a grenade for the president. knew that he could not put mr. berman in charge since mr.e er e berman had already recused himself from the investigation. the president would soon sour on whitaker as he often does with his aides and complained about his inability to pull levers at the justice department that could make the president's many legal problems go away." the news that president trump may have tried to interfere with the cohen probe and other investigations out of the southern district suggests obstruction of justice case against trump is wider than we ever knew and that it extends beyond just trump's alleged actions against robert

in just the last two weeks about donald trump's allege efforts to have his political appointee, jeff berman, u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york, unrecused and put back in charge of certain investigations stemming from cohen's cases. and that is where we start with somebody who knows a little bit about federal prosecutions, southern district of new york, and more importantly what keeps donald trump up at night. chris christie's back along with some of our favorite reporters and friends, chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and former fbi official, former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi, frank fa bluzy at the table, emily jane fox, who had a front row seat to yesterday's testimony and for a moment became part of the story she was covering. let me start with you. you said something that pierced through the den of everything that went on yesterday -- i guess i reveal myself in watching you yesterday after and during his testimony, that what would send a chill down your spine if you were this white house was cohen's testify he's in constant contact with sdn

york by asking his acting attorney general matt whitaker to see if the political appointee there, jeff berman, could take over some of those cases and "the wall street journal" adding in the reporting this week the judiciary committee had some evidence of that going on. >> it's a real risk at this point in the investigation for the president to make the effort to obstruct. he's watched mueller indict people for that conduct. he knows that his own conduct is under scrutiny. the fact that he took this step of trying to convince his acting attorney general at the time matt whitaker to create new leadership, friendlier leadership in the southern district of new york, tell us he had something significant to fear. what we always have to remember is none of what we hear for the first time is news to this president. he lived it. it's his life. the evidence is about his conduct. he knows the southern district of new york is on the hunt >> paul butler, i want to bring you in and we're waiting for this hearing to get under way again. we will go to it when that happens. i just want to flush out some of t

compound this with the agreement with jeff berman, the u.s.thern district of new york to be as pure as caesar's wife in the next three years return for not being prosecuted in the michael cohen finance and he has that monkey on his back. my prediction is they will negate that deal. they will indict either ami or david pecker in new york city. that will bring michael cohen out of jail. this last thing the president wants. michael cohen skilled plea, what are the federal prosecutors say to the federal judge, this was all orchestrated by donald trump. that's all going to come out in the trial if it will happen. >> you're right. it might enter into that three year deal. and then all of a sudden they do this and neither make amends with the president, war, or else. what do you think? >> i don't know how this ends up. jeff bezos seems to be livid. >> he has the resources to do whatever he wants. obviously. >> why would they put his name on that knowing e-mails come back to haunt you. >> of course they do. this was a negotiating technique. you cannot

it tells me that mueller and his team and jeff berman, chief u.s.hattan and his team, are not taking this seriously because if they were, they would not be allowing their chief witness against the biggest target in the world, the president of the united states, to be blabbing to congress what they expect him to say. neil: could they go back and say we can't -- >> they can't actually stop it but they have ways of putting pressure on him to get him to stop. neil: so the various committees, adam schiff is saying he would like to have mueller testify. how far does this go? >> congressman schiff has the ability to run a shadow investigation, a parallel what mueller is doing. he has the ability to review whatever he wants. bob mueller is required to keep things secret until the attorney general decides what we get to hear. neil: you explained it to me yesterday but i already forgot it. the mueller report comes out, there's no there there, something that would be criminally incriminating for the president, but it doesn't matter, right? if you're any one of

jeff, john berman runs in fort collins, colorado, on those trails.on next time? >> you really don't to have worry. this is a remote, rare occurrence. we can count on our hands the very few people killed or injured by a mountain lion in the last century. these are remarkable predators, one of our most successful wild felines. they are successful from canada to argentina. this is a cat that can leap from a branch 60 feet up in the treetops to the forest floor below. it can move ten miles an hour over long distances to pursue prey. they are an incredible creature adapted to survive in the wild. usually in a situation like this where you have an animal in a conflict situation the result is because of an old animal that's sick or injured or in this case a young cat without a lot of life experience competing with other cats in its territory. >> very quickly, if you find yourself in this situation and i hope no one does, what should you do? >> call travis kaufman. you know, you do exactly -- turn around, make noise, look large. you want this predator to thi

we he know interviewed berman. jeff sessions installed him as the u.s. attorney there in new york. a court approved him as the u.s. attorney. we know he has stepped aside. he has been recuse from that piece of the michael cohen probe, on other pieces, for instance the prosecutors investigating the inaugural committee, he is not recuse. trump was concerned, in particular about the michael cohen hush money payment issue. when mit kerr wwhitaker was ask president about his house judiciary testimony, he tried to thread the needle on what he would and wouldn't say. when it came to his conversations about mueller, whitaker was happy to give answers. when it came to answers about whitaker and the president and u.s. prosecutors, he was more circumspect. here's a little of what he said about the president did and didn't do, brooke. >> yeah. >> at no time has the white house asked for nor have i provided any promises or commitments concerning the special counsel's investigation or any other investigation. >> of course, our reporting wasn't that he made any promises. our reporting is that the

berman was not confirmed by the senate. he was installed by former attorney general jeff sessions under a little known federal statute and the reason he is there is he was put in place by the district court after there was an interim appointment. i want to raise that because it's part of the story here. this person was not confirmed by the senate. this is rudy giuliani's former law partner. >> okay, he's rudy giuliani's former law partner, my mistake -- sure, go ahead. >> so i just wonder if it's concerning to you that whitaker said to colleagues at the department of justice according to the "new york times" that his job was to jump on a grenade for the president? >> his job is to run the justice department and he did so. >> sorry, if you could just answer the question. >> whether his job as attorney general is to jump on a grenade for the president? no, that's not his job. >> whether it concerns you that he told that his-to-his colleagues at the department of justice according to the "new york times" reporting. >> we don't know that that was said and if it was that's not his job and that's not the role of the attorney gener

jeff, about this. roger stone has now deleted a post and apologizing to judge amy berman jackson, the presiding judge.sted on instagram, first of all, he posted a picture of the judge, the presiding judge in his trial, with some sort of a target in the frame. here you've got federal judges who have been -- some have been not only under threat but there have been assassinations. and then deleted it but left the picture of her up. she's also the presiding judge over the manafort d.c. trial and over the gru case involving the russians. harry, have you ever seen anything like this? she's now scheduled a thursday hearing at 2:30 on whether or not his conditions of release and the gag order should be reviewed. >> right. and she's showing that she'll do it, as she did with manafort. if i've seen anything like it, it's from plainly sort of mentally ill inmates who write these sorts of screeds. for stone, it's kind of a performance. he was doing this to raise money for his defense fund and a colossal lapse of judgment. and i think we are now seeing him brought to heel, in some ways for the first time in his li

berman over the hush money payments. then before that he wasn'ted corey lewandowski to get rid of jeff sessions. and then he wanted don mcgahn, the white house lawyer, to get rid of robert mueller. but they all refused, according to sources, to carry out orders. what you see is a picture of people around the president, his supporters, saving him from himself, basically. and sort of saying, you know, being evasive, saying we'll get around to it at some point. how do you see this? >> well, i see that as a positive. you know, when people hear these revelations you hear about the president trying to run rough shot over the justice department and put a fix in on this investigation. let's step back for a minute. what do we know about president trump? there's no mystery here. he wanted an attorney general who would be completely loyal to him. he felt that president obama and eric holder, his attorney general, had someone who was on the team who was loyal and would protect the president. a misreading of that relationship because there is a natural independence of a justice department and certainly of th

berman, an ally. well before that he leaned on corey lewandowski to try to get rid of jeff sessions. and he leaned on don mcgahn, the white house lawyer, to try to get rid of robert mueller. so there is a pattern here. >> i think that's true. and think one of the real questions this raises is not just about the investigation. let's go down the road and judge that mueller determines that he's not going to charge the president. we're in for a fight. the most significant nomination the president's made is the new attorney general barr. barr is going to have to make the decision about how much of that information mueller has about all of these interferences, how much of that goes to the congress. because i suspect that congress is going to be the one, maybe not mueller in the department of justice, who are decides what's going to happen with all the information about interference. so watch for a fight. and the fight will be when the final report is done that includes, i guarantee you more than the "new york times" has, on white house interference, does barr say this information, "a," sho

jeff sessions, the president called matthew g. whitaker, his newly installed attorney general, with a question. he asked whether jeffrey berman, the united states attorney for the southern district of new york and a trump ally could be put in charge of the widening investigation. that was, of course, a widening investigation in which the president of the united states had already been effectively named an unindicted co-conspirator in federal court in manhattan. an unindicted co-conspirator who committed crimes with michael cohen and ordered michael cohen to commit crimes in arranging payoffs for the silence of two women in the final days of the presidential campaign. the problem for the president was that jeffrey berman who the president appointed as the top federal prosecutor in manhattan had already recused himself from any investigation involving the president. so jeffrey berman could not do what andrew mccabe says president trump expects from federal prosecutors who he appoints. jeffrey berman could not protect donald trump. in his book, andrew mccabe writes that what he knows about president trump -- he writes what he kn

jeff sessions for recusing himself on the russia investigation. that's why he is asking rod rosenstein, am i okay on michael cohen and asking whitaker to bring back bermanink this is just more evidence of a president who really doesn't understand the separation of powers in this country. he cannot ask people to do things personally for him for his own benefit. these people work for the united states of america. they do not work personally for donald trump. >> there's also some fascinating details. david, you read the article in the "new york times" about the rollout of the firing of michael flynn, the president's national security adviser and how they came up with all sorts of convoluted answers, including at one point the legal counsel at white house drafting a memo that sean spicer had actually gone into the briefing room and misled reporters and the american public about the details. >> right. i think we still need to know more about that as well. i think one thing that strikes me about the resignation or the dismissal of national security adviser flynn was this idea that space was needed to be created between the president and particularly vice-pres

tenure of jeff sessions' period as attorney general attacking him in the rose garden -- >> he chronicled -- >> -- in the residence. >> -- on twitter, 16 million followers on twitter. >> that geoff berman did the same thing is implausible. >> it's totally implausible. you talked about this whole sort of campaign of obstruction of justice in plain sight and it has been in plain sight. it's been on twitter, it's been in his public statements. it's been everywhere. >> since lester holt -- >> it's still real. just because -- >> fired comey to end the investigation -- >> i mean, you know, imagine had richard nixon done all this stuff, you know, would we not have considered that obstruction of justice? we considered it obstructions of justice when he orchestrated a cover-up. this is a cover-up in plain sight. >> nicolle, can i tell you what i saw on the tape there? when i meet a witness i spend an hour asking about nonthreatening topics to engage how the person looks when they're telling the truth and there's no risk to them, then when i get to, well, you know, you saw the murder, right? all of a sudden, everything changes. you know what they say, i saw the murder? >> repeat the question. >>

jeff sessions recused himself from the russian investigation. he saw people in the justice department working for him and to defend him. i think it's important to identify people at home not familiar with jeffrey berman, ken, who exactly he is and why the president would want him at the head of this investigation as a guard rail what he thought was coming down the pike in the cohen investigation. >> he was donald trump's appointee to be the u.s. attorney. that's really all you need to know about it. he had recused. the way it works the u.s. attorney asked the justice department permission to recuse, he doesn't make that decision on his own. the justice department granted that recusal. matthew whittaker knew there was no way that was going to happen and didn't happen. my reporting suggests whittaker knew he was under a microscope in this job and walking a very fine line and knew whatever he did he would be accountable for to congress. i think we're seeing that play out. it doesn't surprise me this ultimately did not happen. >> berman has pulled no punches at all in the southern district of new york since he's been down there. donald trump is misreading geoffrey berman and his character anyway protecti