jeff clark. i thought the proposal was asinine. >> what were clark's purported basis for why it was in the presidents interest for him to step in, but would he do? how would things change, according to mr. clark in the meeting? >> he repeatedly said to the president that if he would put in the sea human conduct wheel investigations that would, in his view, uncover widespread fraud. he would send out a letter that he had drafted and that this was a last opportunity to set this definitive election into action. he could do it, he had the intelligence and the will and the desire to pursue these matters in the way that the president thought most appropriate. >> he was making a pitch, every time he would get clobbered over the head. he would, like, say call to order, president into your decision. you have a chance to make this decision. you've heard everyone, you can make you determination. we would jump back in. really clobber him. >> i think the point that jeff clarke would not even be competent to p

but, why jeff clark? let's hear mr. and the president wanted at the top of justice. >> i don't remember ever recommending to anybody that mr. clark, meaning jeffrey clark, at doj be given election related responsibilities. >> you may be on the president? >> correct. >> well, it beyond the president, i do recall saying to people that somebody should be put in charge of the justice department who isn't frightened of what is going to be done to their reputation. because, the justice department is filled with people like that. >> you should put somebody who is not afraid of what is going to be done for their representation. mr. donahue, when you told the president that you wouldn't pursue baseless claims of a fraud, was it because you are worried about your reputation? >> no, not at all. >> mr. clark's name was also mentioned in the white house in late december and early january, as described by a top aide to mark meadows, cassidy hutchinson. >> it was your understanding that representative perry was pushing -- >> he wanted

if he knew, we also brought the four of us in, no one else aside from jeff clark knew it was going onuntil late that sunday afternoon. we chose to keep a close hold, because we did not want to create concern or panic in the justice department leadership. at this point, the i asked the acting ag would else i could do to help prepare for this meeting at the oval office, he said you and pat should get the ag on the phone, it is time to let them know what is going on. let's find out what they may do, if there is a change in leadership. that will help inform the conversation at the oval office. pat hovakimian, consequently set up that meeting, we got most of the ags on the phone, and very quickly explain to them with the situation was, i told them that i do not need an answer from you right now, i don't need an answer in this phone call. but if you have an answer, i needed in the next few minutes. call me, email me, text me, whatever it is, if you know what you would do, if jeff clarke is put in charge of the department. immediately, eric drive-in, who is the ag of the civil rights divisio

massive corruption that would change the results of the election, it's gonna be the disaster of jeff clark, and i think at that point, pat cipollone says the as this is marie's murder suicide pact this letter. >> cipollone also pushed back against trump's lawyer john eastman miscued memo laying out the scheme for mike pence to essentially unilaterally overturn the election on january six. >> what was communicated to me was that pits pat cipollone his idea was 90 and one point it confronted easement with the same sentiment. >> and last week cassidy hutchinson told the house committee that cipollone warned them of the possible tribes trump could commit if he led them to the capitol generous. ex >> i saw him that morning mr. cipollone said something to the effect that please make sure that we don't go up to the capitol cassidy, keep in touch with me, we are going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the six, we had conversations about potentially obstructing ju

the leadership will be gone, jeff clark will be left leading a graveyard. >> jeff clark is the individual who saw his home search, we have more on that tonight as well. there is a lot happening if you get the feeling that the probe is escorting, the legal developments are intensifying, because they are. the other point though that i want to make sure we are very clear on here before i bring in the experts, you heard those senior ranking officials under oath, citing people, graveyards,. and the idea that basically, if you go forward with these plans, well, you will be committing new crimes. and you won't be in office much longer, mister president. that is the kind of thing that was decided to pat cipollone today, again, you don't take eight hours to simply say, no comment or plead the fifth. we have circumstantial indications today that this was a substantive set of answers. that means pat cipollone would also be able to address, and perhaps refine or fact check any of the many references to him, and his testimony in the hearings thus far. >> we had a brief private conversation, where he s

was no evidence of widespread fraud in any of those states and kept cluksky worked directly for jeff clarke understand he may have been involved in drafting the letter so this may be an important piece of information for the doj part of the story. >> let's talk about your story. you're running for the house in missouri and your opponent is kept greatens. who do you think about in? is he beatable in the state of missouri? >> it is very conservative. he's very beatable. it looks like someone who is an extremist whether it's eric greatens or somebody else and while missouri is a generally conservative republican state and i am a common sense conservative and lifelong republican, i better represent the views of most missourians and while i'm conservative i'm within the mainstream and i also believe in defending our constitution and our democracy, and the republican candidates mostly seem like they want to overturn the 2020 presidential election. there's nothing in our constitution or our democracy in that. >> john dan fort is a big supporter of yours. is your strategy to run as a third party t

there is no way i am serving under this guy, jeff clark. >> you will hear from mr. donahue in person on thursday as my colleague, mr. kinzinger, presents details about this plan. the chair requests those in the hearing room remain seated until the capitol police have excluded members from the rum. without objection, the committee stands adjourned. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] >> to stay up-to-date with the january 6 committee, headed to c-span.org/january6. you will find hearings on demand as well as other events related to the u.s. capitol attack and investigation. the january 6 committee is expected to meet again in july. we will continue our live coverage on the c-span networks. you can also watch on the go with the free c-span now video app. and a reminder, they hearings on the january 6 investigation and all our programming, to you as a public service from the following television providers. >> ♪ c-span's washington journal. every day we take your calls live on the air on the news of the day and discussed policy issues that impact you. coming

. >> jeff clark was proposing that jeff rosen be replaced by jeff clark.sal was asinine. >> i made the point that jeff clark is not even competent to serve as the attorney general. he's never been a criminal attorney. he's an environmental lawyer. how about you go back to your office and we'll call you when there's an oil spill. >> the issue was the use of the justice department, and it's just so important that the justice department adhere to the facts and the law. >> this was in line with the president saying, what do i have to lose? i said mr. president, within 24, 48, 72 hours, you could have hundreds and hundreds of resignations in the leadership of your entire justice department because of your actions. >> so, the pillow guy's lawyer is right about one thing, barbara, it would have led to a saturday night massacre. but the problems with his, at least, option a, were made clear to the ex-president at the time. >> yeah, you know, this -- to circle back to your question to frank about donald trump trying to get volodymyr zelenskyy to investigate joe bid

an eyewitness to all of this including the collectors including this plot to try to get to get jeff clarkttorney general which apparently cipollone was the one who threw this plot out. and a whole bunch of other things like cassidy hutchinson 's testimony last week when trump was told that people were armed and he ordered the magnamitors detectors to be removed. all of that is stuff that cipollone knew about, was an eyewitness to. that's why his testimony is so important. that's why i really praise the committee but i really wanted them to subpoena cipollone. it took them a while to do it, but they ultimately did it. we're gonna have's testimony tomorrow. to me, i think the most remarkable thing about the committee lawrence, is not just that they have changed public opinion these hearings have changed the opinions of people closest to donald trump. the ones who were willing to speak for a year and a half, who sat on the sidelines, who would've been silenced in 2024, but these hearings of force them to come out of the woodwork, and pat cipollone is another one who comes out and tells the t

you have seen jeff clark phone seized in john eastman phone seized, you've seen a focus, some of whichpublic and some is not. the obligation is to follow the facts and the evidence. and that is a solemn obligation that they must pursue no matter whether that means following the facts and the evidence with respect to the president of the united states or with respect to those people that invaded the capital. let me also say, bret, a federal judge has already indicated and has already ruled it is more likely than not that president trump violated two criminal statutes with respect to his efforts to get vice president pence to illegally refuse to count electoral votes. so, i think we have already seen a basis for that. >> would you expect to hear from tony? now secret service training official bobby angle, the lead secret service agent under oath. is there a hold up here? do you expect to hear testimony from them? >> ideal. we have already heard testimony from them. i expect that we will again. private criminal defense counsel we have seen that also with respect to one another secret serv

corruption that would've changed the results of the election, it's going to be the disaster of jeff clark, and at that, point pat cipollone said that this is a murder suicide pact, this letter. >> cipollone also pushed back against donald trump's former lawyer john eastman, laying out the scheme to overturn the election on january 6th. >> he was communicated to me that pat cipollone thought the idea was 90, and at one point, confronted eastman with the same sentiment. >> another donald trump's own sour son-in-law jerry and kushner confirmed in sworn testimony that cipollone threatened to resign multiple times during this period, as trump and his allies adored his protest and continued to plot the coup. on january 6th, cipollone was in the white house desperately trying, according to testimony, to try to stop the insurrection. >> i see pat cipollone barreling down the hallway towards our office. he rest right, in looked at me, and said, is mark in his office, and i said yes. i remember pat saying to him, something like the rioters have gotten to the capital, we have to see the president no

larry: big wave surfer jeff clark told me, the sharks you have to look out for, are the babies.e ones. the big ones, he says, they know the difference between a human and some other form of water animal. and he said, it's the little ones i get confused. and it is like sing a shiny object and that is. . what they're going for so, the big sharks are not going to get me but the little one i so have to worry about. kristen: right. they still bite. that was very clever. larry: shark fest kicks off july 10 on disney plus. which is part of the reason we are telling you about it. are telling you about it. as we wrap up the fo we call it oleyumi. you call it california. our land, our culture, our people once expansive, now whittled down to a small community. only one proposition supports california tribes like ours. while providing hundreds of millions in yearly funding to finally address homelessness in california. vote yes on 27. tax online sports betting and protect tribal sovereignty and help californians that are hurting the most. kristen: this month our partners at national geograp

and also they could talk to him about conversations with jeff clark that trump wanted to install as attorneyeneral. so still plenty that they can get from pat cipollone and it is clear that he is a key focus of this investigation. his name came up over and over again at the hearings that we've already seen up until this point. especially in that testimony that we heard from cassidy hutchinson of course the former aide to the then chief of staff mark meadows. ryan nobles, cnn, on capitol hill. >>> >>> head of the irs is asking the inspector general to look into why james comey and andrew mccabe were both selected by intense audits by the irs. it happened while donald trump was in office. they were both fierce critics of mr. trump. you may recall trump fired comey from the fbi in 2017 and mccabe fired two days before he was scheduled to retire. the "new york times" reported on the audits on wednesday raising questions of why two high profile critics of the former president were selected to undergo the extensive audits. mccabe says they should be investigated. >> to think that it wasn't some ot

it is going to be the disaster of jeff clark, and i think at that point pat cipollone said yeah, thisrder/suicide pact, this letter. >> pat cipollone weighed in at one point, and i remember saying that letter that this guy wants to send, that letter is a murder/suicide pact. it will damage everyone who touches it and we should have nothing to do with that letter. i don't ever want to see that letter again and so we went along those lines. >> katie, that first witness was stephen engel who was the head of the office of legal counsel. he was in that intervention, if you will, on the day that jeffrey clark was at least considered the acting attorney general for long enough for someone to change his title to acting attorney general on the white house call log. he has the most descriptive term for what trump tried to do that day, a murder/suicide pact. talk about what he new with donohue and rosen and his deputy white house counsels, mr. philbin and mr. herschmann. >> so what justice department officials have testified is they thought the letter to georgia and the plan that jeffrey clark h

and according to hutchinson's testimony, he worked very hard to prevent things like having jeff clark be installed as the attorney general and also prevented the former president from marching down to the capitol on january 6th, which would have made a bad situation worse. we're not clear about the parameters of the particular interview. it will take place behind cloclosed doors and will be transcribed and videotaped. we'll see some in future hearings. we don't know how they will handle the issue of privilege. committee members said they're willing to work with cipollone when it comes to matters like that and likely means, though, wolf any specific and direct conversations that he had with the president will be off limits. wol wolf? >> yeah, i think you're right and they will run clips, excerpts from the videotaped interview during the next round of hearings. regarding the georgia special grand jury investigating trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, i understand the senator lindsey graham who is now responded to the subpoena he was issued for his testimony but

. >> i made the point that jeff clark is not even competent to serve as the attorney general. he's never been a criminal attorney, never conducted a criminal investigation in his life. he kind of retorted by saying, i've done a lot of very complicated appeals and civil litigation, environmental litigation and things like that. i said, that's right, you're an environmental lawyer. how about you go back to your office and we'll call you when there's an oil spill? pat cipollone weighed in at one point. i remember saying, that letter that this guy wants to send, that letter is a murder-suicide pact. it's gonna damage everyone if you touch it. and we should have nothing to do with that letter. i don't even want to see that letter again. >> that's pat cipollone right in the thick of it again. and then we have last week's bombshell testimony from the white house aide cassidy hutchinson once again highlighting pat cipollone's central around january 6th. >> on january 3rd, mr. cipollone had approached me knowing that mark had raised the prospect of going up to the capitol on january 6t

the efforts to replace the civil servants with jeff clark, who wrote the bogus letter. his efforts according to miss hutchinson to try to prevent crimes from occurring on the sixth. we are looking forward to his full testimony and i am glad he is coming in. >> could you give some insight into what the process was to produce this? i know you're not gonna get into private negotiations, but presumably there were some this content is on topic air concerns. i mean he will be testifying under oath, right? like other witnesses. >> right. it's a crime to lie to congress. and all the witnesses are very advised of that at the beginning of their depositions. i can't speak for him, what changed his mind, we have been in discussions with him for sometime. he was disclosing that he in one of our hearings, he did come in for a non transcribed discussion. our investigators took copious notes. but he was not until recently, prepared to come in and have formal deposition as he is doing tomorrow. whether it was miss hutchinson 's testimony, i don't know, i would just be speculating. i do

jeff clark would've been left leading a graveyard. >> so doj interference, above us.lot running out of steam. which matters for how you approach the whole conspiracy, trump thought doj would somehow help strong arm the state. but even without them, he pressed on with this brazen authoritarian plan where he actually talked to hundreds of state legislators on january 2nd. desperately proclaiming they would be the real power and they could cancel their own citizens votes. if that's familiar, it relates to something else under investigation, but that might make more sense together than separate. because he demanded georgia's top officials to join him in the kind of voter fraud. this, remember, all the arrows? this is on the same day as the call to the state legislators. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. >> so that was trying to get states to overturn. you have the seven plots, we've mentioned in the report, and then you have the u.s. congress. states rejected trump's demands, we do know that. even very red states. trump was left then pus

counsel, talking about that when trump wanted to put him in charge of the justice about me, because jeff clarkgreed to do what you want to do, and pat cipollone said he told the president, this is not >> anyone is going to think, he went through the two attorney general in two weeks and leave out the environmental get to sign this thing. and i think at this point, pat cipollone said yeah, this is a murder and suicide pact. >> that is not a private combination with the president of the united states, and pat cipollone, you can say whether that is true or untrue. >> he can cooperate, as dan said, what a lot of people said in the meeting. we expect that he will use executive privilege on some stuff, but not all, it will be really key and interesting dear buddy at the safe about that meeting and what he has to say about all of the other meetings that he was an elite up and on the day of. the committee, up to this point, has been really pushing to come before then, and we talked congresswoman liz cheney be very forceful, one of the most forceful, essentially calling him out on multiple meetings. >>

you've seen jeff clark's phone seized and john eastman's phone seized. focus, some of which is public, and some business, but the justice department's obligation is to follow the facts and evidence, and date -- that is a solemn obligation that they must pursue, no matter whether that means following the facts and evidence with respect to the president of the united states or respect to those people who invaded the capital. but let me also say, bret, that judge carter, a federal judge, has already indicated and has already ruled that it's more likely than not the president trump violated at least two criminal statutes with respect to his efforts to get vice president pence to illegally refuse to count electoral votes. so i think we've already seen a basis for that. >> bret: a couple quick specifics. when do you expect to hear from tony or not,-president trump's chief of staff, now secret service training official. bobby engel, president trump lead secret service agent under oath? is there hold up your? do you expect to hear testimony from them? >> represe

the way targeting jeff clark, who of course was a senior doj official, who tried to move forward withinreally a watershed moment for people close to the former president, because it showed that this wasn't this doj probe wasn't just focus on people who are hats, or people in the strait of georgia, but rather that's very much zooming in on the crime size of the events that led up to january six. >> but see, here's the thing. there's the court of law, which is a lot of what we are talking about. there's a lot of the court of public opinion. it strikes me that you have the wall street journal and the new york post, both owned by rupert murdoch. they have come out with op-eds this week, condemning trump's actions on january 6th, with the latter calling him, unworthy to be president. again, i wonder, how significant do you think that is? >> it's incredibly consequential. these are two papers that have enormous sway on the right. the wall street journal, in particular, his substantial influence over the republican donor community. the people who would be in a position to fund a trump campaign

everyone thought clark's proposal was crazy, including white house attorney eric herschmann: >> i thought jeff'swas nuts. i mean, here's a guy that, at a certain point, you know. listen, the best i could tell was, the only thing you knew about environmental and elections challenges is that they both start with "e", and based on your answer tonight, i am not even certain you know that. >> stephen: to which clark replied, "of course they don't! 'environment' starts with 'n,' and 'elections' starts with 'l'! a-duh." ( applause ) then, as with all the ex-president's criminal schemes, it was time to hear about rudy giuliani's role. >> do you remember ever recommending to anybody that mr. clark, meaning jeffrey clark at d.o.j., be given election- related responsibilities? ( long pause ) >> you mean beyond the president? >> stephen: that is a long pause, but it does take a while to chug a bottle of yellow tail chardonnay. rudy eventually answered. >> you mean beyond the president? >> correct. ( pause ) ( laughter ) >> stephen: if there's anyone who's proven he doesn't care about what happens to his rep

january 6th hearing, we did learn the trump tried to fire the attorney general, and appoint this guy, jeff clarker the justice department. he did not just think about doing it, or argue for, it he did at, in white house call logs. jeffrey clark, starting to be described as the acting attorney general, because trump to try to install him. now, we learned there's another. trump did it as well, but when it comes to sydney powell. previously, we talked about making her special counsel, who had been suggested to him. now, he ordered that she would have the job of special counsel, and the only reason it didn't come to pass, it wasn't effectuated in our lives, is because white house officials, apparently, refused to act on his order. which is an astonishing thing, in the history of the u.s. presidency. but, it's only one that we learned about today. there is more, stay with us. learned about today. therone user asked, is the 60-d? is that why trump wants everyone there? another asserted, trump just told us all to come armed. effing a, this is happening. the third took it even further. it will be wild m

. >> yeah, jeff clark has apparently been charged by the district of columbia bar with ethics violationsn't surprising, because we know that former act attorney general jeffrey rosen testified to the bar in regard back in march. what is, katie, i think, really interesting here is that the charges involve making false statements, being dishonest, and also, an effort to interfere, to obstruct congressional and governmental functions. and those ethics charges being raised by the bar are very similar to the types of federal criminal charges that doj could potentially considering. >> joyce and frank, barbara and yamiche, stand by for a lot more to come. we have breaking news now in the contempt trial of former trump strategist, steve bannon. contempt for not complying to a subpoena from this very committee. the defense has just wrapped up its closing arguments. it sounds to me, pete williams from the newsroom, that they are getting close to getting this to the jury. >> right, the judge will now instruct the jury and then they'll begin their deliberations, andrea. the prosecutor said today tha

suppose i replace jeff rosen with clark? but would you do? i said, sir, i would resign immediately.r from mr. donahue in person on thursday, as my colleague, mr. kinzinger, presents details about this plan. the chair across those and hearing room remain seated until the capitol police have escorted members from the room. without objection, the committee stands adjourned. >> that completes our re-air of the fourth january 6th hearing, during which the committee revealed shocking details about how then-president trump and his team worked around the clock to pressure state officials into flipping election results into his favor. i want to bring democratic congressman ted lieu of california to get insight on what's we just witnessed. thank you so much. the committee made the case that this is a wide ranging conspiracy to overturn the election results in these key states. how do you think democrats can both hold those who are participating accountable and make sure something like this can never happen again? >> thank you for your question. let's just start with some basic facts. trump lo

jeff glor, to take over the doj. he didn't just, you know, think about doing, it or argued for it. he actually did it in the white house call locks, jeffrey clarkacting attorney general, because trump to try to install him. now we learned there is another. trump actually went ahead and did it as well, when it comes to sydney powell. we previously saw that we talked about making her special counsel. suggested to him, now we know he ordered that she would have the job of special counsel. and the only reason that didn't come to pass, it was effectuated in our lives, is because white house officials apparently refused to act on his order. which is an astonishing thing in the history of the u.s. presidency. but it's only one. we learned about it today. there is more. stick with us. we learned>> when he are asked,e sixth d day? is that why trump once everyone there? >> another asserted, trump just told us all to come armed. [bleep] a, this is happening. >> the third took it even further. it will be wild, and it means we need volunteers for the firing squad. we need volunteers for i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things