let's bring in jeff hart, and cnbc commentator mike santolli the efforts of consumer banking show theylready lost on the effort it is not clear if it's baring out just yet >> it is not clearly, a lot of the edge it has had in the past, franchises and institutional trading had been dulled by regulation, technology and all of these things we know have been going on a long time i do think goldman and other firms say we were worsed to become a bank holding company and be a leading engine but that doesn't necessarily mean it is going to be nearly as profit in terms of what their old businesses were. >> what is your rating on goldman, how do you view those prospects? >> the article today was pretty negative it did point out that profitability was great. i think you've got to take a step back to understand that goldman is building. that's the way it goes you are going to have losses we are looking at the consumer business having a 60 basis point drag i think it is pretty manageable in the greater scheme of things. >> to that point, it raised for me a lot of questions about whether the wall st

along joining me now to talk more about the banks, jeffrey hart a principles at sandler o'neal and craig callahan is president of icahn advisers jefftart with you, could investors look at this breakout in the banks and think there might be some lights to it >> i think what we're seeing is kind of this year's winners become this year's losers. especially financial some of it was overdo, the move on the ten year felt extreme and the banks followed suit. its nice to see some did get book here. i think what can it continue the question becomes can we get fundamental mackerel support behind it? i think banks were oversold. to start saying we will have a lot of upside, it's difficult at a ten year well below 2% >> craig you said people were overly obsessed with the impacts on the banks, just this morning, ubs downgraded wells fargo, a primary reason is they will have lower net interest over the next couple years. >> we are lowering our impacts for banks. some are growing at double digit paces if their earnings. we have lowered that, we see them growing, profitable interest margins have been quite steady over the last five years so we sti