also cnbc contributor jeff sonnenfeld. herb? >> there are exceptions. if the ceo is a big shareholder in the company maybe you can make sort of an exception in that point. i think, mandy, the bigger issue is this. the board's roles, one of its roles is to hire and fire the ceo. the chairman of that board is the chairman of that board, how is he going to be involved in the situation of firing himself? i know there are exclusions. i get the recuse. >> the point you've been making, jeff, there are exclusions. it should be a case by case situation. >> i completely disagree with herb. reverse it 100%. i usually love herb. but on this matter i think he's become the well regarded follower of passion as has sadly warren buffett. you can find a couple examples where it makes sense. looking at walmart right now, looking at, say, transitions we've had at microsoft. thinking of citigroup, maybe. what they've been through at hp or ford motor company. there are some examples. basically there's no research to support this. in fact, there's research out of university o

worth bringing up, then i'll -- no, but there was a piece in the "new york times" by our friend, jeff sonnenfeld. since we can bring jeff into the equation. the world's most influential hedge fund manager res gathering in new york. cnbc's kate kelly, which is a great name. s almost could be a country singer, really. >> my parents wanted to preserve my optionality. it was television, country singing. >> it's one syllable less. >> i could have been an entrepreneur. i think i would have gone catherine kelly if i were to change my name. >> oh, boy. how about first pet and street name? >> what? >> isn't it first pet and street name? >> when you have security questions? >> this is apprapo, my first pet was a dog named coffee. >> the street name? >> burlington place. >> coffee burlington is not bad. >> they're playing the porno music. >> yeah. >> not so used to that. sorry. we talked about investments ideas. let me just start this by talking about some of the investment ideas that came toward the end of the day and some of the more impactful ones likely in the market today. ios, oil states internationa

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jeff sonnenfeld is going to join us. jeff, you seem to have some mixed views on what this all means. >> thanks, andrew. i had written a book on this called "the hero's farewell." monarchs who stay on for life until they die in office, fred smith, for example, at federal express or something. that's not what we have here. ambassadors, they call them, like at intel. you have them passing the baton, grateful to one another. here, when you have somebody that comes back from the past, say michael dell, we've seen that or howard schultz of starbucks, the legendary movement return to power to steve jobs, it can be great. there are other times, though, where they can undermine their successor. phil me will he will he of nike, harold germane of att, keep wiping out potential successors. sometimes you don't know what their agenda is, if they've undermined the successor. in this case, when you're out of the building and you're brought back in, it's pretty exciting to have somebody who knows the ground, know tess key constituents, mo

joining us is jeff sonnenfeld with the yale school of management and karen brenner with nyu school ofyou're vocal about the fact that you didn't think the roles will split. is that because there's no evidence for the roles to be split? or because we felt strongly for jamie to keep both of them? >> both arguments are good one. first that shareholders have done well with jamie dimon holding the position. overall there have been voluminous studies, more than 50 studies does been dozens of universities. it really has to do with being alert and courageous and honest. but this nonsense is crazy. because they wear bowler hats in the city of london doesn't mean we should copy that here. you saw what it was like in england. and the european scandal, you name it, they already had a separation of roles. >> let me just say this. we're going to speak to ann simpson, and she was adamant on the roles being split. she said the role of the board is to oversee the ceo. it's a fundamentally flawed system. so are you saying she is wrong? >> ann will like to quote the famed cadbury report that camed at a

joining us is jeff sonnenfeld, associate dean for executive programs at yale university school of managementnd he is also a cnbc contributor. jeff, let me ask you first about tim cook, what happened yesterday in front of the senate. how do you think he did? >> i think he did a great job and i also want to say, becky, you just did a great job in that intro trying to oobliterate whatever joe had just done on my intro with the co2 lines, figuring i wasn't awake yet. >> here we go! >> here i get up at 4:00 in the morning and i have to come in to that. of all the intros i've gotten -- >> jeff, the show's over at 9:00, so you've got to get started. >> one of the rare times that here i am agreeing with you. if you have steven rattner on praising the british for this cadbury commission report, and joe, where are you challenging him on the nonsense of the separation of roles? just because they wear bowler hats in the uk doesn't mean we should wear them in wall street or wear wigs to court. no, you don't challenge them then, but let's talk about tim cook. >> i've watched, i can't name anything we disa