jeff toobin, kerry cad arrow. what is the significance of this jeff? >> potentially more evidence that the president was obstructing justice in connection with the comey investigation. here you have -- the whole reason jeff sessions recused himself from the russia investigation is that he knew he was part of what the russia investigation was going to be investigating. it was appropriate for him to recuse himself. by trying to undo that decision through his counsel, don mcgahn, the president is showing that he wanted to be protected from that investigation. that is what obstruction of justice is. now this alone i don't think would amount to a crime in and of itself but when you look at pattern of behavior, whether firing james comey for conducting this investigation, whether it is telling lester holt and russian visitors he fired james comey because of the russia investigation, all of it adds up to the potential for a charge of obstruction of justice against the president. and "times" reporting today is another brick in that wall. >> kerry? >> well, don

needed to speak truth to this man and let him hear it, historical comparisons in particular. >> jeff toobin. >> we have this "new york times" story about don mcgahn at president's insistence talking to jeff sessions, trying to get him not to recuse himself. don mcgahn is one of your successors as white house counsel. do you think there's any problem, legal impediment, reason why don mcgahn couldn't testify about this incident in front of a congressional committee the way you testified about your conversations with president nixon? >> in front of a congressional committee it's an open question, if the president invoked executive privilege, he might be able to impose it. if you recall, during watergate that was unresolved element of executive privilege. a grand jury clearly had access to the tapes, senate watergate committee never got access. judge stopped it, didn't rule on it, thought it was political question. that's an unresolved issue. as far as attorney/client privilege, that's pretty well resolved by ken starr case. >> why were you allowed to testify about conversations with the presid

jeff toobin, you believe this, as part of a piece, is more significant?> yeah, i mean, i think it's quite the opposite of what jason is saying. there is a criminal investigation under way now to determine whether these activities were illegal. i mean, the firing of comey and all the related activities. i'm not here to say it is criminal. but the idea that it's somehow a settled question that it's not criminal, i mean, that's just not -- >> hold on, jeffrey. so you're saying this story, that there's activity in this story that is criminal behavior? >> i'm saying it is possibly evidence of criminal behavior, absolutely. >> oh, man. >> the idea -- no, i mean, i'm sorry to disappoint you. but i mean, the idea that the president is trying to cling to the attorney general because he will protect him from a criminal investigation of the president himself, that doesn't strike you as possibly related to the issue of obstruction of justice? it sure strikes me that way. >> that's not what it says in the story. if the president didn't do anything wrong, why are you s

jeff toobin is going to kill me for playing lawyer, but let me try it after four and a half years.on't think the word collusion or obstruction will come up during the interview. if you're an analyst or agent going into this, you ask questions like mr. president, talk to me about the circumstances before, during, and after the removal of james comey. about conversations with your advisers. about what you told your advisers about the reasons for your removal of mr. comey. say four people said well the president said beforehand he's got to solve the russia investigation and i've got to get rid of james comey and the president says i never talked to anybody about why i remooued him. the president's in trouble. my point is investigators are going to ask about facts. not confirm or deny whether you obstructed or colluded. >> on that note, one of the facts, set of facts that there's no question that robert mueller's team is looking into is is beyond the firing of james comey and whether that constitutes obstruction, which is a legal debate wae've had is also what happened on air force one

one of the things we talked about last night a little bit -- and i think it bears repeating -- jeff toobinthe point and other. even if there was no underlining crime, no collusion or anything inappropriate that the trump administration did, vis-a-vis russia or anything else, if there was an attempt to obstruct justice, even if the attempt wasn't successful, that in and of itself can be a crime. >> and if everything was hogwash, this was a hoax and made up, then why in behavior? this is what is inconsistent. this is what makes -- is baffling to so many people when you look at this. when you're completely innocent, this is not how you behave. why was trump so incensed about sessions recusing himself rightfully from the situation if there was nothing going on? why did he need someone to protect him? protect him from what? this is what -- it screams thinking that everyone's made this up and donald trump is paranoid -- >> i disagree. i know the president. i don't know him well, but i've talked to him particularly about this. he is outraged because he blustery believes he was innocent. i was inv

. >> jeff toobin, gloria borger, thank you. a new report on what appears to be the president's shrinking workday even though his spokesman said he is working tirelessly for the country. what freshly obtained documents of his private schedule have to say about that. it's the phillips' lady! anyone ever have occasional constipation,diarrhea, gas or bloating? she does. she does. help defend against those digestive issues. take phillips' colon health probiotic caps daily with three types of good bacteria. 400 likes? wow! try phillips' colon health. you know what's not awesome? gig-speed internet. when only certain people can get it. let's fix that. let's give this guy gig- really? and these kids, and these guys, him, ah. oh hello. that lady, these houses! yes, yes and yes. and don't forget about them. uh huh, sure. still yes! xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. ( ♪ ) (grunting) today is your day. crush it. angie's boom chicka pop whole grain popcorn. boom! >>> welcome

. >> carl, i mean, the key point that i think is so important that jeff toobin made last night is that even if there was nothing illegal about anything that the trump campaign did or had any contacts with russia, the attempt to -- an attempt to obstruct justice, even if it's an unsuccessful attempt to obstruct justice, that in itself court after court after court has said, that is illegal. >> of course. you know, in watergate there was this trope that the cover-up is worse than the crime, which wasn't true. the crimes in watergate were incredible, abusive beyond astonishing. yet now what is possible is that here the cover-up could be worse than the crime. there is no question that from the beginning donald trump has attempted to cover up all things russian. tried to demean, undermine and obstruct this investigation. at what point that crosses the line into criminality and a charge of obstruction of justice, that's where we don't know enough. but certainly the pattern that we are seeing is so suggestive of no obstruction of justice -- at no point since this president has taken office ha

we talked to preet bharara and jeff toobin just before who said look, you don't interview somebody like the president of the united states unless you are at the end of it, because you're not going to get a second chance. >> i think that's correct. that's certainly the reading i had on reading those reports. he's drawing near the end. he's got all the basic information that he needs so he won't have to go back and try to get another interview. he knows what he wants to ask. trump doesn't know what he wants to ask. so it's also a difficult interview for trump and a troubling one. but it does signal that the investigation is coming to a head on this part of it. >> asha, i think the key phrase there is on this part of it. the fact that according to, again, to these leaks, that the focus of this is going to be the flynn firing, the comey firing. that points to questions about a possible obstruction of justice as opposed to questions about collusion or conspiracy. >> right. so i would say two things. with the obstruction case, it's important to remember that the key piece of evidence that mue

jeff toobin, professor elizabeth foley. thank you very much.ssion. >>> coming up, the president also tweeted about the iran protests which have left more than 20 people dead, hundreds arrested. what the president tweeted and what the white house had to say this afternoon, next. at whole foods market, we believe in food that's naturally beautiful, fresh and nutritious. so there are no artificial colors, no artificial flavors, no artificial preservatives in any of the food we sell. we believe in real food. whole foods market. he gets the best deal on the perfect hotel by using. tripadvisor! that's because tripadvisor lets you start your trip on the right foot... by comparing prices from over 200 booking sites to find the right hotel for you at the lowest price. saving you up to 30%! you'll be bathing in savings! tripadvisor. check the latest reviews and lowest prices. >>> if you're watching, we just had an interesting conversation. professor foley referenced a cnn reporting from april. i want to read three paragraphs from that. "the fbi last year

jeff toobin, professor elizabeth foley. thank you very much.d discussion. >>> coming up, the president also tweeted about the iran protests which have left more than 20 people dead, hundreds arrested. what the president tweeted and what the white house had to say this afternoon, next. woman: i'm a fighter. always have been. when i found out i had age-related macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. my doctor and i came up with a plan. it includes preservision. only preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd backed by 15 years of clinical studies. that's why i fight. because it's my vision. preservision. but having his parents over was enlightening. ♪ you don't like my lasagna? no, it's good. -hmm. -oh. huh. [ both laugh ] here, blow. blow on it. you see it, right? is there a draft in here? i'm telling you, it's so easy to get home insurance on progressive.com. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents. but

. >> jeff toobin saying donald trump might try to run out the clock if he only agrees to testify for, he may just try to -- the flip side is in interviews when he does talk, there's no telling where that conversation is going to go. >> we have to remember there's going to be the lawyers' perspective and then president trump's perspective. and i have no doubt that president trump thinks he can blow this interview away because he's nothing if not overly confident about his skills. >> a genius. >> like, smart. but his lawyers are going to do everything they can to put the tightest four corners artsound this. >> as they should. >> him eating the clock, so to speak, god knows what he'll say and god knows how it will conflict or open contradict. >> if they can set boundaries for it, then donald trump should do it. >> they can't say bargaining chip that they have, trumps lawyers have to say he's not going to discuss financial all yours? >> i think most americans think it's not fair for a special prosecutor to ask questions of things that might have happened years ago, your tax return, alleg

want to bring in the panel, elian na johnson and jeffrey toobin. jeff, you think that think about deutsche bank and paul manafort, that's major. >> that thing. that's really the devastating part of this because you know, the one thing donald trump has said is the one red line that he will not allow paul manafort to -- i'm sorry, he will not allow robert mueller's investigation to cross is investigating his personal finances other than those related to russia. the deutsche bank accounts presumably relate to all of his finances. and all after jared kushner's finances. and here you have steve bannon who notwithstanding what the president said today is obviously very close to the operations of his campaign. >> the quote from steve bannon about deutsche bank, he says it goes through deutsche bank and all the kushner explative, the kushner expletive is greasy. they're going to go right through that and roll those two guys up and say play me or trade me. >> in other words, trying to flip people to get to get to the president. and you know, how can anyone at th

>> yes, i was listening to your conversation with jeffrey toobin and i agree with what jeff said, that the president is making it look like he's looking forward to talk, which is what a high profile person wants to do if you want to give the impression you have nothing to hide. that's a normal operating procedure for people like that. but at the same time, he has left himself some wiggle room if he thinks a good deal has not been arranged or he can use his lawyers as scapegoats. as we also all know the president sometimes listens to his lawyers, sometimes doesn't. probably it's the case any reasonable person would think they have been telling him for a long time, that he should keep more quiet about various issues. he probably should not have done that lester holt interview. he probably shouldn't be tweeting about various things. whether it's in relation to the russia investigation or the travel ban. his statements have been used from twitter and from other circumstances in actual court proceedings that have been unfolding aurnd t ining around his detriment. no only do we know he's cap

. >> jeffrey toobin, how significant is the fact that the attorney of the united states, jeff sessions, spent several hours last wednesday answering questions from robert mueller and his team? >> well, again, it is evidence that i think the mueller team is tending towards the end of its investigation. as preet said, you don't get many chances. you only usually get one chance to interview the top people, like the attorney general, like the president. so they would not have brought jeff sessions in unless they had all the evidence that they wanted to question him about. but he is a central figure. he is someone who has told inconsistent stories about his own involvement with the russians during the campaign. in addition, he was intimately involved in the decision to fire james comey. both of those are big parts of mueller's investigation, and you can see why there were hours of questions worth to ask him. >> everybody, stand by. that's much more we're following. including money in the stormy daniels saga. was her alleged payoff by the president's lawyer illegal? woman: i'm a fighter. alw

jeff sessions recused himself. and now rod rosenstein has caught up on that as well. thanks very much. >> now jeffrey toobinly, he is fire him but what could be the political fall out from that. >> i don't think the president cares so much about the political fallout. pause and think about how many people he fired from his administration. >> and doesn't like already. >> and he has talked about firing jeff sessions, now deputy rod rosenstein. he is mad at mcgahn, the white house counsel. you have to look at the management, and he has gotten rid of half of the white house staff one go around. that is the news more than anything rod rosenstein did. >> you would have to prove corrupt intent. and what is corrupt intent and what is the bar that has to be met in order to prove it. >> corrupt intent means bad intent. it is not a technicality, it is improper intent. the president is allowed to fire the fbi director as he did. and he could have set in motion the firing of robert mueller. but it is obstruction of justice if you do it with corrupt intent. and what is so important about the "new york times" article was

toobin pointed out. for democrats, what's the difference between border or security and a border wall? as jeff flake said after the meeting, maybe they can compromise on the definition of the wall. several is hundred miles, let's say, and the rest is security. the democrats have been strengthened by this overnight. the stars may be aligned and there is a deadline for daca in the d.r.e.a.m.ers in march. >> well, that's the problem, though. even though there is a date certain they will say it will end, there are problems every day. as these application for renewal have come up, they haven't been processing them. the court said you can't do that. we will see if they appreply wi an appeal. this was a big deal for us last night with anthony scaramucci. there are positions in their policies. and it seemed clear to us this was a major distinguishing feature for trump. they were saying it needs a wall. not me. full china. a wall with the brick and the door, everywhere. and yesterday it seemed to fall away, jeffrey. let's play some sound. >> that doesn't mean 2,000 miles of wall because you just don't

jeff sessions and president trump to fire the fbi's deputy director andrew mccabe. joining us to talk about all of this and more phil mudd and cnn chief analyst jeffrey toobin. let me start with you. if he has made a frequent target, if they and ag sessions think that andrew mccabe is a partisan who lets other partisans have text messages about why they want to bring down trump, why wouldn't they want to pressure him to get rid of an drew mccabe. >> the question is does the fbi director work for the american people, have independence, or is he an employee like the secretary of education, secretary of the interior? is there something different about the fbi director? traditionally one reason they had ten-year terms, they're supposed to be independent, they're supposed to operate with more of an interest in the law. obviously president trump thinks that the fbi director should be loyal to him. that's why he fired fbi director comey. >> you always have a layer that's relevant. this was attorney general jeff sessions reportedly getting involved with this when he's supposed to be recused from all things russia investigation. how does it smell to you? >> doesn't s

toobin and phillip lakavara. good to have both of you here. on any night but especially a friday. thank you for joining us. jeffsay the president had the right to fire comey. that's not illegal. he is on thin ice when it comes to intent. explain that, please. >> well there are a lot of crimes, white collar crimes that are known as intent crimes. like insider trading. it's completely legal to sell stock, but if you sell stock with improper knowledge of the -- of what's going on with the stock, that makes it a crime. same thing with obstruction of justice. in this context. it's quite appropriate or allowable for the president to fire the head of the fbi or initiate the firing of the special counsel, but if he does it with corrupt intent, and that's the word in the law, corrupt, then it becomes a crime. and if you look at the accumulating evidence of trump offering false, you know, reasons for why he was firing, reasons that his own white house counsel apparently, according to "the new york times" story, didn't buy. the evidence that he was engaged in a corrupt obstruction of justice is really starting to build he

jeff sessions recused himself. and how he dealt with mueller in considering firing him and now it seems that rod rosenstein has gotten caught up in that as well and is in the president's crosshairs. >> jeffrey toobiny. regardless how angry the president is at rosenstein, sure he could legally fire him, but what be the political fallout from that? >> i don't think he cares about the political fallout. just pause and think about how many people he's already fired in his own administration. >> and doesn't like already. >> he's talked about firing jeff sessions, now the deputy rod rosenste rosenstein, he's mad at kelly, he's mad at don mcgahn, the white house counsel. at this point you have to look at the management and he's already gotten rid of half the white house staff one go around, that the news more than what rod rosenstein did. >> regarding any possible obstruction case mueller might bring, he has to prove corrupt intent. what is the bar to corrupt intent? >> corrupt intent is bad intent. it's not a legal technicality, it's just improper. intent, the president is allowed to fire the fbi director as he did, and he could have set in motion the firing of robert mueller, but it is obstruction of j