but jefferson died in 1826. peter was only 11 and all of a sudden his life completely changed families were broken up 130 people were auctioned after jefferson's death. joseph was actually one of the people that were that were freed, but but peter was not he was sold to a master a very cruel master who forbade him to read who whipped him, you know, it was a very is a time of suffering for that for this young man who left monticello. he tried to escape and was caught and brought back. eventually joseph foster joseph fawcett rather with the help of some friends was able to buy his son's freedom and they all the whole family moved to ohio peter fawcett became a reverend. he became a caterer had a successful business. he worked with the underground railroad. and years later it was in 1900. he was 85 at this time. he was invited back to monticello. so by this time, you know, the jeffersons had long since lost the house the levy family a jewish family. that was very inspired by jefferson's commitment to religious free

jefferson and simply delay the vote on dr. cook because many -- several members that wanted to vote for her were not here. instead the ranking member decided he wanted to just one more time try to embarrass dr. cook. it's not really going to work because we're going to confirm her. just to be clear, my motion only two hours ago was let's move forward on those two. that was rejected by senator >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government where funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> did you think this was just a community center? no it is way more than that. comcast is partnering with community centers to create wi-fi enabled places so students can get the tools to be ready for anything. >> comcast support c-span is a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> on saturday, the daily show host trevor noah headlines the first white house correspondents association dinner since 2019. president biden is expected to attend, making this a fi

about jefferson.he difference there is jefferson was unable too. b >> jon said that earlier this morning and when gordon reed was here. i called at the jefferson conundrum. meaning how do you judge people who were great in many ways but in the light of history, hate it when people use in the context of their time which is usually a euphemism for excusing a lapse. the fall prey to the jefferson conundrum even my work writing about biology you have james a watson who is the greatest biologist of the 20th century as a structured dna but becomesi racist basically and his feelings about race and heredity. how do you teach watson in biology? how do you teach jefferson in history? and that gordon reed was pretty interesting yesterday which is, it is too easy for us to just dismiss jefferson. i do think you earn extra credit for being ahead of the curve of history. >> franklin's reputation he is held inh higher regard through the lens of a moral framework by living his life. >> and he comes to grips with slav

i wrote a little about him, but you have written about jefferson and the difference there is jefferson. was jefferson was unable to make and john said that earlier this morning and then that gordon reed was here because what i call it the jefferson conundrum meaning, how do you judge people who were great in many ways but in the light of history, i hate it when people use in the context of their time, which is usually a euphemism for you know, excusing right a moral lap. but with so many people who fall prey to the jefferson conundrum even in my work writing about biology with the codebreaker you have james watson, who is the greatest biologist of the 20th century does the structure of dna but becomes racist basically in his feelings about race and heredity. so, how do you teach watson and biology? how do you teach jefferson in history? annette? gordon. reed was pretty interesting last yesterday. and so was imani perry? which is it's too easy for us to just dismiss a jefferson or something now, i do give frank. i do think that you earn extra credit for being ahead of the curve of histo

so so jefferson, i take a little bit of liberty with jefferson. it's fairly clear that jefferson thought that coming together just to amend the constitution was good enough, right, but that's not so much fun. right? so ultimately i i kind of take what jefferson said and imagine real constitutional conventions where they could in fact start over again. i do make the argument though that until 2022 there wouldn't have been hugely radical design changes because things were working relatively. okay in terms of bicameral legislatures and presidents and so on. yes, i make arguments that president, you know, you might have one term presidents that are six or eight years, but ultimately structurally separation of powers and federalism probably wouldn't have been wouldn't have been tinkered with in the in the radical sense, but you have in in 1903 i make an argument that henry cabot lodge for example would have wanted a real significant power shifting to the president and foreign affairs, right? so, what does that look like? that's a real structural change

that tension of jefferson saying i know that this is wrong. but this is necessary in order for me to have all of this. i think in some ways that's a metaphor. >> and here's something that's also bad about jefferson is that he was actually a deepermoral thinker . i love ben franklin but ben franklin is tactical and gets it but sometimes you know deep philosophers in madison and jefferson are amongst them and yet the deeper philosopher whose reading john locke and writing all these treatises, they still can't have the common sense of an average printer and shopkeeper likeben franklin on market street . as a deeply reflective person who had all the great philosophers, jefferson should have gotten it a little bit better . >> so interesting that and i a think your narrating through american history metaphorically through franklin and really when people ask the question today why are these guys relevant i think it's a powerful articulation of why we need history, all of our history o and why understanding these men is so important to understanding t

. >> and the difference that jefferson was unable. >> i call it the jefferson conundrum meaning how do you judge people who were great in many ways but in light of history i hate when they say in the context of their time which is usually a euphemism or excusing a moral lapse. but there are so many people who fell prey to the jefferson conundrum even writing about biology you have james watson who is the greatest biologist beof the 20th century but becomes racist basically and his feelings about race and heredity so how do you teach biology and history but annette was interesting yesterday which is it is toohi easy to dismiss jefferson. i do thank you are next to credit for being half of the curve of history. >> certainly he is held in higher regard to the lensrs morally living his life. >> right. when he comes to grips with slavery he doesn't even free sally hemmings let alone the slaves so yes, the great thing about history is we can reassess people but we also have to be humble about what they knew and when they knew it. >> that he is a metaphor. >> it is that dialectic between fran

>> like most, all founding fathers, jefferson didn't like the idea of competitive parties. he believed in what we call small arm republicanism, education, property, who understood the virtues of the commonwealth, should get together and make the laws and shouldn't have these factual disagreements, obviously had disagreements with hamilton and john adams, went against each other for president but when jefferson became president in 1801 said enough with the partisan party stuff, said we are all republicans, all federalists by which he meant we don't have parties anymore and in effect, we're all republicans. >> yeah, stop criticizing me. >> exactly. and this was not a mass party, even when he had a party. it was a collection of notables, i think i call it. i'm trying to remember the exact number who voted in the 1800s, you know, 50,000. there's more people in the suburb of bethesda, north of washington, d.c., twice as many as there were voting for president, both candidates then. >> electorate was tiny, even those who could vote most didn't bother voting in national elections.

he and jefferson are, how shall we say? somewhat falling out of favor with the modern democratic party and has so far as honoring them. i don't think they called a jefferson-jackson dinner or the jackson dinner that anymore. they call them something else. jefferson statue was taken down inside the new york city council chambers because of his history of slay no slave learning and all. >> you make a reference to president isn't around early on in your book you started to research your book when donald trump won the election and that sent democrats into a state of disarray. what are your thoughts on how the democratic party, let's start with jefferson dixon's thing. these are two figures in the party's history, if you will, who are into favor now. i guess that's not so surprising. >> yes, because more and more historians especially in warren americans too are realizing how essential flavors to american history. you can argue about the 16 19 project, whether they're correct about that or not. but clearly we have the most impor

well, let's start with the jackson jefferson thing. these are two huge figures in the party's history if you will who are out of favor now, i guess that's not all that surprising. no because more and more historians, especially in a lot of americans too realize he how central slavery is two american history you can argue about 1619 project whether the correct about about that or not, but clearly we had the most important event in american history some would argue as a civil war. i would probably agree civil war i would say and the civil war was of course about whether a part of the country could break away to preserve slavery. so it's not surprising that two presidents who were incredibly popular figures at the time when they were president when they're alive, but also were major slave owners independent slavery. in fact in jackson's case wanted to expand it into the western territories taking from mexico. it's not surprising that present-day democrats in this multi-racial multicultural party are not going to be very, you know, happy a

islamic extremism they go back to jefferson.o went to the jefferson library and i look to their there's one guy in charge he said nobody ever asked me until recently about how we took on islamic extremism. about you know jefferson that might get you to look atam the book but if i told you the islamic extremism we live for i tell youay but can what we did and how we prevailed and jefferson did so much on his resume nobody really talks about unplowed ground, like the spies go do it. some people love the story. they can relate to jefferson he was fantastic he belongs on every statute not to be taken down. [cheering] but what if i told you i talk about presley o'bannon probably don't know them. so the rest of the world turned away so we do not to deal with the islamic nations were going to pay them money not to invade us, not to attack us. america stood up for itself and they sent a group of people 500 miles through the desert and took tripoli before we cut and ill advised peace deal. oti'll give you the rest of that story brought m

i mean jefferson spoke in needlepoint pillow terms, right? he's like isaacson that way and not since walter isaacson died alone. has there been an event like the new orleans book festival? but kathy just threw up. yeah, but he understood the tragedy of history because he understood the tragedy of human beings. and so there was this gap between the actual and the real and we're still trying to close it. can you explain to people he had an affair apparently with a slave sally hemings. what was the unique attraction of sally hemings because of the familiar background how to why did he fall in love with her in your view? well, there are two things i think just say quickly. i'm not sure affairs the right word and there's no way of knowing about love in this it was the longest relationship he had in his life with a woman including his mother including his wife and i think a key factor here. is that sally hemings was thomas jefferson's wife's half sister. now only in louisiana is that totally explicable. so that's good. i'm from tennessee. so we tha

. >> out john, you have obviously written an important book on jefferson. can you explain to people why it is jefferson wrote a sentence someone says mostol famous sentence we hold these truths to be self evident all men are created equal when he had slaves how could a man say all men are created equal when he had all of those slaves, hundreds of them? whatat was he thinking or what d he really mean? >> he could write it because he wasll a man he was a human being and he was fallen, frail and fallible like all of t us. lincoln said the declaration was intended to create an embed in a revolutionary document standard to which we could aspire. jefferson was unable to make his intellectual convictions triumph over his personal convenience. i don't mean having a beutler or something, his entire order. his first memory was being put on a horse on a pillow by an enslaved person that the first thing he remembered. and so his entire universe was shaped by this. and nobody was more eloquent about it jefferson spoke in needlepoint pillow terms. and not since he dined

, turned his back on jefferson. >> i don't think that's true. jefferson's memory 40 years later in his biography is incorrect, he makes three or four factual statements in that and that can be proved not to be true, and it's in the book and you can take issue with it if you disagree, but i think once you read it, i really do think you will appreciate that he wasn't being rude to jefferson, even though jefferson needless to say jolly well deserved it after the paragraphs in the declaration of independence. at the time of the pact in congress, the virginian and south carolina linen. representation was on the cart if the americans wanted it, and it was too late because they had been fighting for three years. i don't think that you can claim the great wrong of no taxation without representation if you are going to already turn down the offer of representation. the gentleman in the middle there. >> i am bob benson. this might be a considered a frivolous question -- >> oh, good. i was looking forward to one of those. >> perhaps you could comment on th

jefferson was right. as long as we think as we will and speak as we think, the future will always be brighter. when he founded this great university, i know tomorrow is founder's day, he declared this institution will be based on the illimitable freedom of the human mind. and let me say to each and every one of you, your presence here tonight continues mr. jefferson's legacy, from the founding of this university forward, and i'm grateful. [applause] the freedom of speech is the god-given birthright of every american. and we can never let the woke left take it away. thankfully, i'm proud to report that the american people have been stepping up for freedom, just like courageous voices did here and did on other university campuses where i've had the privilege to speak. and parents are beginning to take back our schools. i don't know if you noticed. but a republican by the name of glenn youngkin was elected governor of the commonwealth of virginia just last year. [applause] and -- [applause] and i was in loud

they always go back to jefferson. so i went to the jefferson library. and i looked there and there's one guy in charge. he goes. nobody ever asked me in depth until recently about how we took on islamic extremism. so i thought you know jefferson that might get you to look at the book. and if i told you islamic extremism we live with it every day. but can i tell you what we did and how we prevailed and jefferson did so much on his resume. no one really talks about it. so i go uncloud ground like the spies go do it. and people love the story they can relate to jefferson because he's fantastic. he belongs at every statute not to be taken down. right but what if i told you william eaton probably don't know him. what if i talk about presley o'bannon probably don't know him. so the rest of the world turned away and said we don't want to deal with these islamic nations. we're just gonna pay him money not to invade us us not to attack us. america stood up for itself and they sent a group of people 500 miles through the desert and took triple it. we're about to

is that sally hemings was thomas jefferson's wife's half sister. now only in louisiana is that totally explicable. so that's good. i'm from tennessee. so we thank you all gives us something to you know. so i think there was we don't know if there was a physical resemblance, but she was his wife's sister. what was the age of consent in virginia those days twelve twelve. let me real quick because this is been a theme annette. gordon. reed was at the book. that's right who wrote hemmings jefferson and hemmings, which is a much better book than mine, but but it's very interesting how she said wrestling with this question is wrestling with what america has to wrestle with now so, you know, we've had multiple views of amani perry and had a glod so all have been addressing what i call the jefferson conundrum of american history. so john if one final question on this round you wrote a book about the winston churchill and roosevelt. so there's an infinite number of humorous stories that about winston churchill in the relationship with roosevelt and winston

on jefferson. >> i don't believe that's true. i go into this in some detail. i think jefferson's memory 40 years later in his biography is incorrect. he makes three or four factual statements in that paragraph which can be proved not to be true. i think he was remembering with advantages, as shakespeare put it. i think once you read it, i really will appreciate that he wasn't being rude to jefferson even though jefferson jolly well deserved it with 28 clauses within the declaration of independence. your point about taxation without representation, that is the greatest of the crimes of the american revolution. however, at the time, the virginian and the south carolinian delegations were ordered by their provinces not to accept representation if it were offered. by the time of the peace offers of the carlisle commission of 1778 where representation was in the cards if americans wanted it, of course it was too late. they reed been fighting for five years. i don't think you can claim great wrong of no taxation without representation

>> jefferson-- jefferson sends the first draft to franklin, right.oes, "uh-uh. this is beautiful, but we're in the enlightenment, buddy. these are self-evident truth, like the sun rises in the east, that all men are created equal-- asterisk-- thomas jefferson owns human beings. asterisk, by the time we get to the constitution, the southern states don't want to join, unless their property, their slaves are count forward the purposes of representation. and we forge the tragic compromise that creates the united states without which we would not be together. we'd be warring city states, by clause that is so horrific, the three-fifths, counting the black, stolen african slaves as three-fifths of a human being for the purposes of representation and apportionment. and that gave the south undue legislative control until the civil war. >> stephen: you don't let franklin off the hook for that. >> oh, no. no. franklin-- these are tragic compromises that have to be addressed. and we don't let him off the hook for owning a hand full of household slaves. it's just

jefferson was unable to make his intellectual convictions triumph over his personal convenience and i don't mean, having about laura something like that, but a mean his entire order, his first memory was of being put on a horse onlo a pillow by an enslad person, that is the first thing to be remembered and some of his entire universe was shaped by this and nobody was more eloquent about it andrs jeffersn spoken needlepoint pillow terms like he was just that way. [laughter]r] not since isaac walters like this book festival. [laughter] but kathy just threw up. [laughter] but he understood the tragedy of history because he understood the tragedy of human beings. so there was this gap between actual the real and were still trying to be slain this. >> he had an affair with a slave, sally hemmings and what was the unique attraction of sally hemmings because of the familiar background and why did he fall in love with her in your view. >> one or two things if i can just pick one, i am not sure affair is the right word is nowhere in a way of knowing about 11 this coming iss the longest relatio

there are a lot of statues of thomas jefferson. we are not erasing thomas jefferson from our history. >> who gets to decide who is honored and where is our next topic. when you appear on history as it happens in july around the fourth anniversary of the unite the right rally, the confederate stages did come down -- in august, confederate stages came down in charlottesville, general lee and jackson. our discussion was really about why certain narratives gain ascendancy and why we today believe certain narratives or a certain version of history instead of say a different or more complete or revised version, the issue of the confederate statues is arguably the best one because as a yankee myself who flew down to washington, i am a yankee i guess, moved down to washington dc a decade ago and noticed over the river in alexandria there still streets and roads named after confederates and i was puzzled why that would be the case and in charlottesville, statues were not put up right after the civil war to honor battlefield heroes, they wer

jefferson did so muchh on his resumÉ. it's unflowed ground -- unplowed ground. the spies, go do it. people love the story. they can relate to jefferson. he's fantastic. he belongs on every statue not to be taken down. [cheers and applause] what if i told you with william eaton, we don't know him. the rest of the world turned away and said we don't want to deal with these islamic nations, we're just going to pay hem money not to invade or attack us. america stood up for itself, and they sent a group of people 500 miles through the desert and took tripoli, and we're about to take tripoli before we cut an ill-advised peace deal. and i'll give you the rest of that story. which brought me to another era, the war of 1812. andrew jackson, many people can relate to the fact that you weren't connected in virginia. many people can relate to the fact that sometimes horrible circumstances you grow up in. jackson becomes the leader and wins a battle everybody told us they didn't have to fight. on further review he had to fight. without it they probably would have taken, the

sharon chen introduces us to this week's jefferson award winner. >> reporter: today, the north richmond farm yields fresh organic produce. it used to be a popular dumping site. until doria robinson led a team to clean and rebuild the soil for healthy yearly harvest. >> now, after all these years of doing all that work, we are growing thousands, literally 26,000 pounds of fresh healthy food for the community. that's the beginning, right? >> reporter: executive director of urban tilt, doria has spent the last several years growing a reliable food source for west contra costa county. the nonprofit built urban gardens and drains neighbors to grow food for a healthier community. it is farm to table community supported agriculture program proved its worth during the pandemic. >> we still had food. we fed the 400 families that depend on us every week. >> reporter: doria's team started farmers to family at the start of the pandemic. the grant supported program keeps free weekly program for farm stands where there are few or no grocery stores. manager isabella xixi teaches people to cook vegetab

his previous works include biographies of washington jefferson hamilton and many others. let's get started right away the closing line of the declaration of independence is quote and for the support of this declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence. we mutually pledge to each other our lives our fortunes and our sacred honor. please examine this sentence and tell us why you think fortune was included. well, obviously there there lives were involved because they were starting a revolution against the king. and if it failed or if they were captured. they would be hanged drawn in quartered the grizzly execution ritual of the english. but their fortunes they were quite. various some of them were very wealthy some of them were not but they stood to lose everything because if you're on the losing side of a revolution not only yours, but you're you're families and your descendants properties also became the property of the king. so so everything they had earned was at risk. is there is there a particular gap in scholarship you've written so many boo

he wasn't being rude to jefferson even though jefferson needless to say jolly well deserved it after 28 clauses in the declaration of independence, but can i get your to unto your pay point about taxation without representation? because of course, that is the greatest of the cries of the of the american revolution, however at the time of impact congress the virginian and the south carolinian delegations were ordered by their provinces not to accept representation if it were offered. by the time of the peace offers of the carlisle commission of 1778 where representation was on the cards if the americans wanted it it was of course too late because they've been fighting for three years, but i don't think that you can you can claim the great wrong of no taxation without representation if you're already going to turn down the offer of representation. gentleman in the middle i'm bob benson. this is might be a frivolous quite consider a frivolous. that's good. i was looking forward to what it is. perhaps you could comment on in the play hamilton the characterization of king george and perha

i will just say on jefferson's path today. i mean things have cooled off a lot. i mean, we're not getting anything out of the senate. i mean they didn't pass the for the people act they've not passed our legislation to reduce prescription drug prices. they're not passing our you know, america, you know protection of women's healthcare act. i mean law after law it just goes over there and it just vanishes and disappears. so, you know, i i resonate with what the prior question is about. i mean, you know, we could keep them as a house of lords and they could have their titles. they're not legislating anyway, and we could move to a unicameral legislature. so thank you for being here. you you said that in your role you're respecting the independence of the justice department and kind of keeping your mouth shut about what's going on there, but is there anything that we the people can do to light a fire under the justice department to get them moving on all these issues? well, that's a good idea. so you know democracy is not. it's definitely not one person and it's not

his previous works include biographies of washington jefferson hamilton and many others. let's get started right away the closing line of the declaration of independence is quote and for the support of this declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence. we mutually pledge to each other our lives our fortunes and our sacred honor. please examine this sentence and tell us why you think fortune was included. well, obviously there there lives were involved because they were starting a revolution against the king. and if it failed or if they were captured. they would be hanged drawn in quartered the grizzly execution ritual of the english. but their fortunes they were quite. various some of them were very wealthy some of them were not but they stood to lose everything because if you're on the losing side of a revolution not only yours, but you're you're families and your descendants properties also became the property of the king. so so everything they had earned was at risk. is there is there a particular gap in scholarship you've written so many boo

there's a lot of statues of thomas jefferson.we are not erasing thomas jefferson from our history. >> well there was an issue, who gets to decide who's honored and where. that's our next topic because when you appeared on history as it happens podcast, fairly recently, it was actually in july around the fourth anniversary of the unite the right rally. the confederate statues did come down, actually was an august i take that back. the confederate statues came down in charlottesville, general lee and jackson. in our discussion, really about why certain narratives gays ascendancy and why we today believe certain narratives or believe a certain version of history instead of say, a different or more complete or revised version. and i think the issue of the confederate statues is arguably the best one. because, as a yankee myself, move down to washington, i'm a mets fan but i am from the north. i'm a yankee, i guess. move down to washington d. c. about a decade ago and i notice right over the river in alexandria, there were still stree

as impossible knowing what he knew about jefferson. it just didn't square. with his lifelong documented portrait simulator talking about we talk about sally fairfax, and they and the now more or less means sally heming. i'm sorry. i've got my founding fathers affairs mixed up. yes, sally sally hemmings who was most people now agree jefferson's mistress. and the mother of multiple children what about because it's closer to what you've written about. what about james flex there or douglas southall freeman franklin. well, you know the wonderful thing flexor wrote a wonderful. for volume biography of washington and i would really urge people. i know it sounds formidable. the one volume can't begin to capture. the richness and why because flexner was an art historian. which means? flexner wrote with his eyes it's a very visual. you are there flexner has it's one thing. to be able to see it. it's another to be able to make others. see it. and not only see it. but immerse themselves in it see that to me is great biography. great biography is almost claustrophobic.

dumas malone clearly worshiped at the altar of thomas jefferson. it's a remarkable series. it's a definitive and a factual in a factual sense, and yet he missed maybe the most important thing about jefferson. more to the point -- and i don't want to beat up on malone -- more to the point, i think he dismissed as impossible knowing what he knew about jefferson. it just didn't square with his lifelong documented portrait. >> [inaudible] you're talking about. >> we're talking about sally fairfax and the no more or less -- >> humid sally ham hemings? >> i'm sorry, i got my founding fathers if there's mixed up. sally hemings, who most people would now agree with jefferson's mistress at the mother of multiple children. >> what about -- because it's closer to what you've written about -- what about james flexner or douglas southall freeman? >> yeah, flexner is -- the wonderful, thing flexner wrote a wonderful for volume biography of washington. and i would really urge people -- i know it sounds formidable -- the [inaudible] volume can't begin to capture the richness. and why? but

he got that from esther jefferson. but i think -- think about this, when blinken referenced back, we were ater 80 years young, i don't think anybody in america you that as last best hope on earth, he knew what we could become as a people. it is that last best hope that brought my family that i'm not looking over my shoulder in fear. that is our hope in virginia. i am not sure the format but i am happy to take questions because one of my great montrose in life, recognize i'm not the smartest person in the room and i know there are a lot of lawyers smarter than me. >> i don't know if you saw political this morning but the headline discusses the fact that the d.o.j. has warned attorney general's over transgender issues. if i might read the first sentence of the letter from the assistant attorney general at the d.o.j., u.s. department of justice committed to ensuring trans unit all youth are treated fairly with dignity in accordance to federal law including ensuring such youth are not under skirmish based on the gender aff