one of our favorites, jefferson bethke. the pope really started up controversial.rstood? >> yeah, i think he was a little misunderstood, and i chat about this in chapter 4, and everybody has viewpoints and they are all fine, but true phrurlism, everybody has a voice in the marketplace. i would argue we don't have that, it's tribalism. it's retreating to the camps and throwing rocks at each other and typing how we hate everybody. the internet has a way of dehumanizing people, but when you sit and have a conversation, it's difficult. >> you are not saying all views in the religious world are the same -- >> yeah, i am not talking about relativism. we need to get back to having the conversation. we need to be okay with disagreeing and dialogue. here is the truth. if we all have humidity in the pursuit of truth, if we are all after the same goal, i think chris anti-holds the most water and i am not afraid of having that conversation, so that's what we need to get back to. >> people hurt the pope talk about the same-sex marriage and the santa tea of marriage, and do you