jefferson davis doesn't do that because jefferson davis knew better right. and we can we can go to a fight between these two gentlemen. two, two, really encapsulate that in brief. so when the confederacy is formed, they need to appoint general officers. they need to appoint them. and joseph johnston at the time is the quartermastereneral of the united states army. and he thinks great, i'm going to be the highest ranking officer in the confederacy because i'm the highes ranking guy who resigned their commission in the united states army. not so, says jefferson davis in fact, johnston falls behind samuel cooper, albert syey johnston and robert e lee. so he's not even the first johnston. he's he's his fourth and the second johnston and i mean, he was upset. i'll say that in march 1861, confederate congress had authorized the appointment of five officers to the great a brigadier general and the law stipulate to that quote the relative rank of each grade should be determined by the former commissions in the u.s. army. a perfect joe johnston has the highest rank,

jefferson davis. he actually is trying to think about what he could possibly do. we all know what his plan is eventually, because we all have hindsight and we know exactly what happened. he wants to get down to joe johnston in north carolina and he realizes that the siege of petersburg is over. so he goes to, of all people, john gordon, to try to think about what his options were going to be some time in in late february. john gordon is an attorney, a slaveholder in and plantation owner in georgia. he's only 33 years old in 1865. he had suffered five really horrible at antietam. and you always see a picture of gordon. so i flip this around because i wanted him to give a stern look. jefferson davis. so if you flip it around, it's always that side of his face because the other side of his face was horribly disfigured at antietam. he died in 1903, wrote a book, reminiscences of the civil war, and douglass, also freemen, called it charming but subject to. the critique applied to off told stories committed

i flipped this around because i wanted him to give a stern look at jefferson davis so if you flip it around, it's always that side of his face because the other side of his face was horribly disfigured at antietam. he, in 1903 wrote a book reminiscence of the civil war and douglas southall freeman called it charming. but subject to the critique applied to oft told stories committed to print late in life. he meets with lee at two o'clock in the morning, lee is having a hard time sleeping and he's up at two o'clock in the morning one morning and gordon happens to show up and he and lee have a two hour talk about what we should do. now, why isn't he talking to long street? why isn't he talking to you? because these guys are 20 miles away. i mean, this guy is here. so let's, let's have a little talk. and what did they talk about? and lee asked for gordon's opinion. now, in gordon's book, it was, lee asked me what my opinion was and i told him and that's gordon saying that, probably it's more of a conversation that starts with lee. but this is what the options that they came up with. go a

he is a few meetings with jefferson davis. he actually is trying to think about what he could possibly do. we all know what his plan is to eventually. we'll have fun side and we know exactly what happened. he wants to get down to joe johnston in north carolina and he realizes that the siege of petersburg is over. gordon trying to think about what his options were going to be. sometime in late february. john gordon, his attorney, slaveholder and plantation owner in georgia but only 33 years old. in 1865. he had suffered five really horrible and and you always see a picture of gordon. i flipped this one around because i wanted him to give a stern look at jefferson davis. so i could flip it already. the other side of his face was worth it we disfigured. in 1903, he wrote a book, reminiscent on the civil war. douglas freeman called it charming but subject to the critique applied to often told stories committed to print late in life. he emerged with lee at 2:00 in the morning. lee is having a hard time sleeping. he is up at 2:00 in

they were going to kill jefferson davis and they were going to burn the city. and this absolutely inflames the south. they cannot believe. to them, the north has raised the black flag, they have escalated the whole level of the poor. this is really over-the-top for them. just because nothing happens and lincoln is not actually cannot doesn't mean they don't believe that the south didn't try to do this earlier. you see the connection there? [ indescernible ] we don't know, lincoln never admitted to anything. [ indescernible ] no one else took any responsibility. may 24th, heintzelman again talks about a raid one of the keys here also, in terms of what will happen with the cavalry corps army of the potomac, is that all the horses coming into the army, the new horses, are going to be diverted to heintzelman's cavalry [ indescernible ] thousands and thousands of horses. now, all those horses are going to stall and you even see the one comment there [ indescernible ] the army quartermaster, he writes this. you see the date there. he actually draws this out. he tells

they were going to kill jefferson davis and they were going to burn the city. this absolutely inflames the south. they cannot believe what they just heard. then the north has raised the black flag. they have done this on the whole level of the war. this is really over-the-top for them. if you are the north, just because nothing happens and lincoln is not actually kidnapped does not believe does not mean that they don't believe the south is trying to do this. do you see the connection there? lincoln never admitted to anything. doll bird was dead. we won't even focus on him. nobody else took any responsibility. may 24th, we find somebody again talking about a raid. one of the keys here also in terms of what will happen with the calvary crew army at the potomac is all of the horses coming into the army, the new horses, they were going to be diverted to ice almonds category. they will be diverted away from the calvary core army of the potomac. the army of the potomac's calvary is trying to rebuild that as they lost thousands and thousands of forces. all of those fo

congress took away the invalidation from robert e lee and jefferson davis. you're saying that donald trump is more of an insurrectionist than jefferson davis, the confederate pretender president? that's dangerous. cheryl: we've got a lot more coming up. getting to the bottom of the biden family's influence peddling, what did the president know about hunter biden's decision to defy a congressional subpoena? judicial watch president tom bitten will weigh in for us. taking a look at markets on the final trading week of 2023, the word on wall street panel is here next to weigh in. don't miss a moment of it. you're watching a special edition of "mornings with maria" live on fox business. ♪ helping me get my money right to achieve my ambitions. want to see? (♪) like saving for the ultimate tailgate setup. with sofi checking and savings, i pay no account fees, and earn a competitive apy. sofi can help you fund all your ambitions, no matter how big... or small. ready break! like investing in the athletes of tomorrow. (♪) cheryl: time for the word on wall street, top

there is no official documentation from jefferson davis, robert e lee, anybody in the south that this was ever planned. i want to be clear that front doesn't mean it wasn't when we know most of southern records were destroyed at the end of the war either accidentally by the fires or there was a confederate secret service. they did do things this, there's no question that they tried to spread smallpox and, some of the northern cities and things like that, very well stored by the secret service. those records are believed to have been deliberately. keep in mind stuart's christmas raid. he comes into the for vacation from washington and now we're going to talk about the raid because i never watched so lee meets with davis for three days and may. 1863 enrollment to discuss the summer camp. there are no records of that raid we no written documentation whatsoever about what was discussed. but we know the general parameters of davis wanted lee to hold his army in camp, essentially send part of the army, help defend vicksburg mississippi. he would tie up the rest the army, but he was not goin

nobody liked jefferson davis. alexander stephens was a crappy speaker. there was nobody you could really get behind. maybe robert e lee but he looked like a weenie as well. they did not have that kind of cult following. >> that makes me wonder how much you think the current rise of the maga movement is aligned with the backlash of the first african-american president. >> that's a great question. obviously that is at least part of it but this has been coming a long time. people argue that trump is a reflection of a long history where he is unique. i always about my card and say it is both. certainly in that particular moment it was possible to mobilize the tea party and all the language that had gone into effect when president obama was elected. a couple of books ago i wrote the history of the republican party in part because of all the signs that you saw with people saying we have a socialist in the white house. i wanted to get to why they were arguing that obama who is really to the right of eisenhower was a socialist. the answer is race and class have

jefferson davis, nobody liked. alexander stephens was a bad speaker. there was nobody you could really get behind. maybe robert e lee. at the beginning of the work, he looked like a weenie. they did not have that cult following. >> when you bring up race, makes me wonder how much you think that the current rise of the maga movement is intertwined with the backlash against the first african- american president. >> that is great question. that is part of it. this has been coming a long time. people argue that either donald trump is a reflection of a long history or he is unique i take out my libre card and say, both. in that particular moment, it was possible to mobilize, for example, the tea party and mobilize the language that had gone into effect when president obama was elected. i wrote a couple books ago, the history of the republican party in part because all the signs you saw with people holding up signs saying, we have a socialist in the white house. i am like, really? is he the last one in the world? i wanted to get to why they were arguing that

jefferson davis nobody liked. alexander stephens was a crappy speaker. there was nobody you could really get behind. may be robert e lee but he went too. they didn't have that cult following. >> when you bring up race, how much you think the current rise of the maga movement with backlash against the first african-american president. >> great question. obviously it is at least part of it but this has been coming a long time. people either argue that trump is a reflection of a long history or that he is unique and i say it is both. 's certainly in that particular moment it was possible to mobilize the tea party and to mobilize the language that had gone into effect when president obama was elected. i wrote a couple books ago the history of the republican party in part because of all the signs that you saw with people did up signs saying we've got a socialist in the white house, and i'm like really? is he the last one in the world, because i wanted to get to why they were arguing that obama, who was really to the right of eisenhower was a socialist and the

for a certain part of this population, but they did not have a single person to rally around jefferson davis. nobody liked alexander stephens was a crappy speaker. i mean, it was it was there was like nobody could really get behind. maybe robert e lee. but at the beginning of the war, he kind of looked like a weenie, too. so they have that kind of cult following. well, when you bring up race, it makes me wonder how much you think the current rise of the maga movement is intertwined with backlash against the first african american president. that's a great question. i obviously it's at least of it, but this has been coming long time. you know, people either argue that trump is a reflection of a long history, that he is unique. and i always whip my labor card and say, actually, it's both but certainly in that moment, it was possible to mobilize, for example, the tea party, to mobilize all the language that had gone into effect when president obama was elected. doctor, i wrote a couple of books ago, wrote the history of the republican party, in part of all the signs that you saw with people hol

for a certain part of this population, but they did not have a single person to rally around jefferson davis. nobody liked alexander stephens was a crappy speaker. i mean, it was it was there was like nobody could really get behind. maybe robert e lee. but at the beginning of the war, he kind of looked like a weenie, too. so they have that kind of cult following. well, when you bring up race, it makes me wonder how much you think the current rise of the maga movement is intertwined with backlash against the first african american president. that's a great question. i obviously it's at least of it, but this has been coming long time. you know, people either argue that trump is a reflection of a long history, that he is unique. and i always whip my labor card and say, actually, it's both but certainly in that moment, it was possible to mobilize, for example, the tea party, to mobilize all the language that had gone into effect when president obama was elected. doctor, i wrote a couple of books ago, wrote the history of the republican party, in part of all the signs that you saw with people hol

he might have done if davis would have listened to anybody but jefferson davis. i think bragg is not super well used as a sort of military adviser. again. i think davis's best move with bragg would have been to make him the confederacy's montgomery mags and doesn't stick around long in richmond. i don't know if they got tired of him or whatever, but they did send him right to north carolina, to the coast there, and that's where he ends up at the end of the war in 1865. and i'm sure they saw him coming and just know this really, it's over. braxton bragg is here and going to the kingdom of daniel harvey hill, of all people, too. yes. yeah, that'll work. so, ladies and gentlemen, cecily nelson. jan, thank you all. okay. okay, everyone. so good evening, everyone. good evening. welcome to health center. i only hospital and the annual benjamin drive emancipation day celebration. my name is sharita thompson and i work with marion brown. for the last eight. here's hoping to organize an annual to celebrate and recognize d.c. emancipation act becoming law on april 16th of 1

. >> when it was supposed to deal with confederates, it was talking about people like jefferson davis. people who would deny that back then, abraham lincoln was a legitimate president. they did the right thing in 1868. it does not say that word, president, nh. that is what donald trump will be with his lawyers taking to the supreme court. they should not apply to me. it has been a battle for a few years now. i think the key to this, he was part of the insurrection or is that the wrong word? a rally that some hooligans went amok. that has been the big argument between democrats and republicans. we heard president biden really lay down hard. this was not insurrection. it is about what is the meaning of that word? is he going to be lumped in with section 3? as a former president? yeah? >> sorry, doug, i did not mean to interrupt you there. >> i was just going to say that the election denial has been going on and on. we knew this would get to the supreme court at some point. donald trump is going to fund raise on this. he will probably end up being on the ballot in the end. a huge legal m

[applause] have gone to the jefferson davis school of human resources.laughter] next to her as our book review editor by day he's a chief administrative officer for central virginia battlefields trust will cure a little bit from them tomorrow. there's lots going on in the chancellor's area for me preservation point of view and a bunch of different fronts we will fill you in on that. were able to address that properly. our former chief historian my great polish brother. chris got his in the national military long, long ago when they still had horses for cavalry which was last week actually. right now he is the director of the museum for the state of wisconsin. so they have more than she's there. he tells a wide story of the involvementth in the armed services that is a fantastic museum of things he randomly e-mails me. he is off on the adventure of a lifetime. they are very lucky to have him up in wisconsin. last but not least our great friend tim smith who has been gracious enough to sign books and answer questions tonight. [applause] so i actually want

6th and the 14th amendment since a lot of maine heroes were involved in writing that to keep jefferson davisff the ballot and began to understand there was a concept of insurrection out there. i really believe that trump was a significant part of an insurrection on january 6th. so, that started me and then i was called and asked if i would be interested in joining this argument in front of the secretary of state of maine. i said yes. >> you know, to your point, one of the arguments that's been made against it has been, there has been -- he's not been criminally charged nor convicted of insurrection. what do you say to those who argue that? >> well, if you read the 14th amendment it doesn't say anything about convicted. it just says it created an insurrection against the state. that's why i don't believe we need to have a conviction to go forward. >> and it's self-executing as well. it's been interesting, particularly in conservative circles, there's a split, a divide in the legal movement. some believe this absolutely has merit. some completely dismiss it, including former attorney general b

think he thought much beyond my mother, who's from greensboro, carolina, like the kid that it was jefferson davis but i don't think that was the case. but if we take this. jeffersonian idea, maybe is something sort of psychologically at work here, it is a critique of this idea that, you know, like jefferson felt that that every county should essentially rule itself and and have very limited interaction power. and in some ideal universe that's true. but we don't live in that world and. local forms of power are very coercive of and lead to this freedom to. and so that's why i'm in some ways i'm trying to overthrow sort of jeffersonian, jacksonian idea of of what freedom is, although i have sort of jackson revisionist thing going within the book. yeah. no. do you think. yeah it's going right and. could you comment on the inability of our country to change the constitution? that's a softball, right? yeah, right. yeah. i don't even know where to begin with that. but yeah, it is, it is interesting. so the i, i set out a main sort, you know, problematic the book is the idea of the republic which inheren

think he thought much beyond my mother, who's from greensboro, carolina, like the kid that it was jefferson davis but i don't think that was the case. but if we take this. jeffersonian idea, maybe is something sort of psychologically at work here, it is a critique of this idea that, you know, like jefferson felt that that every county should essentially rule itself and and have very limited interaction power. and in some ideal universe that's true. but we don't live in that world and. local forms of power are very coercive of and lead to this freedom to. and so that's why i'm in some ways i'm trying to overthrow sort of jeffersonian, jacksonian idea of of what freedom is, although i have sort of jackson revisionist thing going within the book. yeah. no. do you think. yeah it's going right and. could you comment on the inability of our country to change the constitution? that's a softball, right? yeah, right. yeah. i don't even know where to begin with that. but yeah, it is, it is interesting. so the i, i set out a main sort, you know, problematic the book is the idea of the republic which inheren

even if jefferson davis decided he wanted to run for u.s. senator from mississippi in 1867, he still would have run because he never was convicted of treason against the united states or engaging in insurrection. it's outrageous. >> he has been acquitted politically of insurrection and he has never been formally charged criminally with insurrection. what do you think the supreme court is going to do? when are they going to do it, though? >> well, i think the proponents of picking president trump off the ballot in colorado are actually going to live to regret the day they did this. the 4-3 decision fast tracked to the court in colorado. the colorado decision saying they are going to stay the execution of the order until the very last day before the balance have to go out and they have to be printed. so the u.s. supreme court can review it. understand once the u.s. supreme court gets there, there is no chance in my judgment and i heard professor turley say this and some of the other guests there is no chance the supreme court says this is okay

of the confederate solution or confederate constitution or the president of the confederacy, jefferson davisree different things and say explicitly, themselves, i'm not just asking jeff to accept empirical evidence or just accent asking him to sort of wait his understanding of american history. it's catalyzing an accident crosses. until i hand the person he loves, who told him lies. and this person represents the broader community, broader environment. and it becomes this existential crisis work these people are having to reassess the restraints of self. not only her sense of history. and i think that it's not an excuse, to be clear, but i think it's also important we understand was under gordon so many others believes that allow people to continue to hold on -- even subconsciously that decision of somebody like nikki haley to not acknowledge and say directly what the civil war was about. because she knows it taps into something that's much deeper than what's happening on the presidential campaign. it taps into the essence, the very question of identity and who a person's as they make their

jefferson davis, the president of the confederacy was barred from public office. he never went to trial. the colorado supreme court, based on their interpretation of the constitution. we know the constitution can actually be interpreted by people to mean what they want it to mean. the judges have already said the constitution means what we say it means. the judges in colorado basically did that. they interpreted it the way they saw it. i don't -- just because his name does not appear on the ballot i would think the people in colorado could use write in if they wanted to. i don't know if that would bar them from writing in trump on the ballot. thanks very much and merry christmas to all. host: other quick headlines for you. the senate to work on border policy bargain through the holiday. a bipartisan group of senators were trying to break -- cut a deal on a the ukraine and tying it to immigration policies before the senate left for their holiday break. they were not able to reach an agreement. the work continues according to the washington post. yesterday the ukrai

didn't have to have it on the books and they didn't charge any of the confederates with it and yet jefferson davis, and other confederates, were not allowed to hold office. i think those arguments are pretty weak in the end. our constitution is clear. you cannot violate our constitution and violate your oath and then run for office. that piece should be held i think no matter what. >> really quickly, the clock is ticking. super tuesday, maine goes to the polls. 45 days. this needs to be settled by january 20th to get the ballot in order. are you confident that will happen? >> well, i hope so. this ruling is a very strong ruling. we hope this will be upheld and maine will not be placed on the maine ballot. hopefully they will rule very quickly. >> ethan, appreciate you jumping on the phone with us tonight. thank you. >> thank you. >>> also tonight for you, a cnn exclusive. new audio and new details about the great length the trump campaign went to to overturn the 2020 election. including talk of chartering a private jet to bring fake elector certificates to congress in time. all of this revealed in

looking at the troops around the capital and she hears the soldiers singing a song about hanging jefferson davis for me sour apple tree. so she goes home that night to the hotel and wakes up in the middle of the night and gets out of bed to write it down because she knows she won't remember. she doesn't turn off the gas because she has a kid asleep with her and she writes the battle hymn of the republic. the glory of the coming of the lord. but the second part of that is i have seen him in a watchfire of 100 circling camps. they've built an altar in the evening do and damp. what she's talkingof about is fathers and husbands who've havt fires around the capital so that nfnobody could break in so the confederates couldn't come in. they held those for four years. $6 billion. 600,000 lives. and we had a president that we invited that flag into our capital and when he carried the flag into that capital, i felt outraged, not only for us today about for all the people who had given up so much since the 1860s to preserve the idea of the united states as a place wheree people are created equal and have t

with jefferson davis, who led the confederate army. haven't gotten popular in the in suing years.ws, i guess he got popular some of the way. he decided to run for president in 1870. six he would've been pretty clear he would not even eligible to run, despite the fact that he had not been convicted. they decided not, lincoln decided not to charge a lot of the confederate leaders in the name of -- it could still apply to trump. that is a democratic supreme court in colorado. all seven appointees were from democrats. it was split 4 to 3. it was a close call. that does not give me a lot of hope that a 63 republican supreme court would come to the same conclusion. i'm hoping for any pleasant surprise to my stock in this year. hope dies last. but my analysis is it is not particularly likely that the supreme court is going to agree with colorado decision. >> some say that this decision could backfire and could actually help reelect trump. you know colorado, you grew up there. it is not a critical swing state that trump need to flip. some observers predict independent voters are going to

how do you guys i think she did today by the way what are you think is i've i've gone to the jefferson davis school of human that's right so next to her is tim talbot. tim is our book review editor, an emerging civil war by day he's the chief administrative officer for the central virginia battlefields trust. we'll hear a little bit from them tomorrow. lots going on in the chancellorsville area from a preservation action point of view right now on, a bunch of different fronts. we'll fill you in on some of that. but tim's one of the guys on the front lines who is really trying to help make sure that we're able to address that properly. so tim, thank you very much for being with us tonight. our former chief historian, my great polish brother, chris koehler koski. chris got his start here at fredericksburg, spotsylvania national military park long, long ago when the polish still had horses for cavalry, which i think was last week actually right there. that right now he's the director, the veterans museum for the state of wisconsin. so have more than cheese there. they have veterans, too. and he

, if this reading -- if that reading was right and he wasn't an officer of the united states, jefferson davisld have had president after abraham lincoln. that -- there is no one who drafted the 14th amendment who thought that that would be appropriate. and in this case -- >> just real quick -- >> go ahead. >> no, i didn't mean to interrupt you. i do want ask you before i let you go, this is obviously a legal win for you, but are you worried at all about the political upheaval this will cause? >> look, the way that we look at it is you can't pick and choose what parts of the constitution you abide by. that's the constitution that we live by as americans, and it's a rule of law country. and if we don't have rule of law, then we don't have much of a country. and so that's the important piece to us. i think that's what we have focused on, and certainly think that political upheaval if we abandon the rule of law will be far greater than if we say, hey, we need to make sure that everyone is playing by the rules and that we have a country that is worth defending and a constitution that is worth defe

when you read about his logistical about how he's begging jefferson davis for supplies how his men are foraging for edible weeds, it really does break your heart. abraham lincoln has some goals as lee is invading the north. what's the last thing he wants them to happen? attack? well, he's not interested in taking washington. he knows it's too strongly defended, but he definitely politically he cannot afford to let lee get into pennsylvania and he wants him back into virginia. and if you can mcclellan destroys army, but mcclellan's is not going to do that. lee's to fight it at sharpsburg and i can't get into all the why, but he really doesn't want to fight sharpsburg. he really wants to get into pennsylvania he's going to make a decision that's going to influence him, but he likes if he has to wait and he's waiting for stonewall jackson to get back from harpers, if he if he to wait, if he has to fight, is a good area for him to fight the area around antietam. one you've been there you know there's a lot of high ground lee may not have a lot of men, but he has many can't. if you have abo

when you read about his logistical about how he's begging jefferson davis for supplies how his men are foraging for edible weeds, it really does break your heart. abraham lincoln has some goals as lee is invading the north. what's the last thing he wants them to happen? attack? well, he's not interested in taking washington. he knows it's too strongly defended, but he definitely politically he cannot afford to let lee get into pennsylvania and he wants him back into virginia. and if you can mcclellan destroys army, but mcclellan's is not going to do that. lee's to fight it at sharpsburg and i can't get into all the why, but he really doesn't want to fight sharpsburg. he really wants to get into pennsylvania he's going to make a decision that's going to influence him, but he likes if he has to wait and he's waiting for stonewall jackson to get back from harpers, if he if he to wait, if he has to fight, is a good area for him to fight the area around antietam. one you've been there you know there's a lot of high ground lee may not have a lot of men, but he has many can't. if you have abo