the final days of his administration so that jeffrey clark could declare the election stolen. so jeffrey clark and a bunch of january 6th rioters, that was the focus of this thing in congress. the hearing opened with a video that was edited like a news reel from the start of a horror film with distorted colors and a creepy soundtrack, and it suggested that january six was actually inside job perpetrated by the deep state. but here is the thing about this, it wasn't a real hearing. this hearing was chaired and i am using vocal air quotes there, florida congressman matt gaetz, who is not actually the chair of a congressional committee. but on tuesday he pretended he was, he brought in his witnesses and used all the formal lingo and told the people that they were recognized, their time had expired, they were also beside the point -- this was just something that matt gaetz was doing on his own in the hope that someone somewhere would pay attention to this. >> all of the testimony for today and off the record will be available for members to submit for the official record of the ho

jeffrey clark, the trump justice official who tried to get states to toss the election results.that the crimes he committed as he sought to topple the power structure at doj were things he didn't -- still doesn't fear any accountability for, that either trump would pardon him if he's leaked again or that he was acting at someone else's direction. what do you make of that list of witnesses? >> i think they shouldn't be a list of witnesses, they should be a list of inmates in a jail cell. or in guantanamo. this is upside down world. you've got people like gaetz and taylor greene, who are 9/11 conspiracy people on steroids. this has gone to a whole other level that is about rewriting history, but is also about circling the wagons, protecting their own, mobilizing their base, naming targets. the mentioned the boston fbi. they also arrested three people yesterday for threatening new hampshire national public radio. they're naming their targets, calling their punches. and there are smaller punches happening all the time. attacks on members of the media, threats to election workers, th

within the department very few people had really heard of jeffrey clark. >> but donald trump had.ott perry had brought him to the oval office to meet with president trump on december 22nd, the day after perry had been amongst republican members of congress who joined trump at the white house to discuss overturning the 2020 election. trump also mentioned jeff clark on a separate call with rosen. >> he made what i regarded as a peculiar reference. i don't remember the fact quote, but it was something about did i know jeff clark or did i know who he was or something like that. i was quizzical as to how does the president even know mr. clark? >> rosen confronted clark who admitted he'd broken the long-standing policy governing communication between the justice department and the white house. white house lawyers pat cipollone and patrick philbin also intervened and warned him not to communicate with the white house. clark agreed, but just two days later escalated the situation with an e-mail that setoff a series of events that would rock the justice department. >> we came in on monday,

eventually, which was when they advised him to do the legal and right thing, including not installing jeffrey clarkain and again that they weren't really sure what clark was up to. they felt i it very disconcerting that he has so much access to real information and accurate information about the fact that the election was not stolen but that he was still conspiring and working with others in the white house and around the white house to try to do something they knew was not only untrue, but potentially unlawful. so it was really early indication that there was going to be legal problems down the road for jeffrey clark. fast forward, jeffrey clark right now in washington, d.c., there's a fight over whether or not he's going to lose his bar license. and some of his own filings, he's wanted to delay those hearings, saying, i'm under criminal investigation in these other matters, which is why i think we should delay deciding whether or not my licenses is revoked. he says he believes he's going to win, we need to say that too. but now he's conceded in other public forums that he is certainly in legal ho

the act of richard donoghue testifying before the january 6 select committee about his zinger to jeffrey clarko take over the justice department to aid his failed attempts to overturn trump's 2020 election defeat. jeffrey clark's violation of strict rules when he met with trump the month before to discuss their plan has elevated him as a figure, perhaps a key one, in the ongoing doj investigation into january 6. it's important background to keep in mind as we learn about clark's role in another autocratic plot. let's bring in eric swalwell of california, a former impeachment manager for the second impeachment of donald trump. mara is still with us. congressman, what do you make of what is now in the open to dismantle doj and the fbi? >> they don't want a rule of law. they want a rule of mob with donald trump as the lead mobster. that's clear now. the truth is, they have run this play before. right? donald trump got impeached because he tried to use taxpayer dollars to get dirt on joe biden. it turns out, there was no dirt on joe biden. he was impeached for the conduct. he launched this durham

justice department should serve at the mercy and pleasure of the president is none other than jeffrey clark, who donald trump you may recall wanted him to be attorney general, not because he was fit to be attorney general but he was the only person at the doj who would have done whatever donald trump wanted done so he could stay in power. so the notion these post-watergate reform, the essential reforms that tried to construct a wall, the wall that, you know, senator mccaskill describes between the doj and the white house, the notion that we're going to take that wall down so that we can construct an entire justice department that does nothing for four years but go after the bidens for no crime being named except for biden, and that is an idea embraced under this sort of monarchic theory of presidential power shows to me how far we have moved. even bill barr, the most sort of discredited justice department official we had pretended there was a wall between the justice department and the white house. now we're not pretending anymore. that's a far, far move in a couple of years. >> claire, bid

i will admit, seeing people that are as educated as ron desantis and jeffrey clark, and the heritage foundation, and people who purport to be constitutional original lists, they spout this stuff, and it is scary. the fact that they are feeding it to trump supporters, and republicans as fact when it is not, is also scary. because dahlia is right. the rule of law is what we they are do permanent damage. i will say, i don't think most americans want a president in charge of deciding who is prosecuted. i think most americans see that this is a serious case, with no evidence. i wish the federal court would see the beauty of a televised trial in this instance. regardless, i think most americans will come down on the side of what joe biden believes in, and what i believe in, and what we all believe in, and that is that cases should be decided on the facts, and the law, and nothing else. i think that provision will win the day politically. even if the other side is feeding all of this bs to their supporters. >> i appreciate you sounding a note, thank you both for your time tonight. i really

so, rest assured, if trump wins again jeffrey clark, or at least his ideas, will likely be back. ustifying trump's takeover at the doj. it recently wrote an article titled quote, the u.s. justice department is not independent. that's pretty straightforward. in other words, the plans for a trump-controlled doj are already out in the open. and trump has made clear he's got a list of political enemies with biden at the top. if anything that sounds like weaponizing the justice department, to me. >> joining me now is democratic congressman adam schiff. he was an impeachment manager during trump's first impeachment, and served on the january 6th committee. he's also running for senate in california. i want to start where i ended there. it's pretty clear trump's goal should he become president again, is to have an attorney general pursuit political prosecutions under his direction. what could that look like? and what concerns you the most about that? >> well, it's terrifying. and first, jen, i could say, happy father's day to all my fathers out there, and including my own father -- thank

so rest assured of trump once again jeffrey clark or at least his ideas will likely be back. y legal argument justifying trump's takeover of the doj. he recently wrote an article title quote the u.s. justice department is not independent. that's pretty straightforward. in other words, the plans for a trump control doj are already out in the open. the he's got a list of political enemies with president biden at the top. if anything that sounds like weaponizing the justice department to me. joining me now is democratic congressman adam schiff. he was an impeachment manager during trump's first impeachment and served on the january six committee. he's also running for senate in california. i want to start war ended there, it's pretty clear that trump's goal is to have an attorney general to pursue political prosecutions under his direction. what could that look like and what concerns you the most about that? >> well it's terrifying but and first i want to say happy father's day to all the fathers out day including my own. >> but you are right this is a terrifying prospect. ever s

it shows testimonies of documents and search jeffrey clark's home, they seized the phones of droplet or mike pillow, and it wasn't a hearty starter in minnesota when federal agents caught up to him. this investigation has been running parallel to the documents probe. undoubtedly, and massing an enormous amount of evidence on where that will go. they've been closely following the investigation into january 6th, and joins me now. it is a window into how we know who has been there, right? it is just people being around the federal courthouse, and seeing people, right? >> we have some of our ace producers, who camp out, and there's a long list of people you need to look for. there were complicated and, there was some sort of book to see on who is who. but in this case, basically, there's a lot of elevator watching, i should add. essentially, there is a grand jury who meets on the third floor, but when you see someone get into the elevator, that elevator lands on the third floor. finally, after meeting with the grand jury, and he knows what some of the grand jurors look like, so we know w

they believed there had been fraud, even though top doj officials knew that wasn't true, when jeffrey clarkted to do this, presenting this as an option, he kept saying this will be basically a test case. and there are other states that we can send a similar letter to. georgia was sort of -- i think georgia's interesting because it's where you see this larger plan begin to be activated. you see pushback from state officials and the justice department on it. georgia wasn't the end-all and be all. they wanted to do more. it's just where things started. so imagine if a georgia official had not pushed back. imagine if department officials had not pushed back. imagine if department officials had not fought with trump and their jobs in order to stop it it would have been the first state to fall. but now we know it as the state that all of these people in the trump orbit were suddenly focused on, that's because they were focused on it initially. when you see that large sprawling plan had that involves members of congress, people who work in the white house and outside of the white house and the jus

witnesses included january 6th defendants, conspiracy theories and jeffrey clark, one of the officials to pursue unfounded claims of voter fraud in weeks after the 2020 election. our guest who uncovered -- covered the hearing for "the new york times" writes the 30-minute event was a through the looking glass alternative to damning case against the former president but it's quickly becoming a central issue in presidential politics and "the new york times" magazine's robert draper joins us now. when you were at that hearing, what was it like being in the room and listening to what they were saying? >> it was like being in an upside down world. and also, jim, their narratives shape shift, you know, within a matter of seconds. either the january 6th what took place there was basically peaceful or it was violent but an antifa kind you have violence or it was set up by the fbi, thus a feds problem. basically, their point of view is that they are politically persecuted. there is a two-tier system of justice, but it's not well off whites versus people of color. it's the ruling class versus tru

sidney powell, and former justice department official jeffrey clark.point, what about former president trump. and based on our reporting right now, it is not clear if he's a target, but we know that witnesses have been asked about him. about his actions and what he was saying and what he was doing leading up to january 6, on january 6 and after. but at this point it is unclear if he will be charged but there is are some other folks who aren't sleeping well tonight. >> and prosecutors are looking into potential financial crimes, money laundering, the raising of millions of dollars off of these election lies. do you think that could be a source of legal peril? if you lied in order to raise money. >> it is a source of legal peril because it is straightforward to prove. you just have to proof the untruth, that it went into an email or a solicitation and that you send it to somebody else and that is potential wire frad and mail fraud and a lot of the questions are far more complications when you deal with a candidate for office makes a statement, how do you

states who tried to weaponize the department of justice, tried to control it and try to put in jeffrey clarkhis election around and it was a constitutional election. he is the one in his group and they're the ones that are weaponizing government. you know? they are weaponizing congress not to solely problem but to do it and go after a democrat politically. that just doesn't make sense. that is not the way democracy works. that's not the way america works. so you know, i think that folks have to kind of get this straight that it is a real proof to looking at a president or a former president of the united states for the washington post says was lying before he was over 30,000 times. what do you expect? and not to do it no. >> it is obviously what is happening is just dangerous that it is. good to see, you my friend. thank you for the book recommendation. his book, i'm gonna read that and then you and i are going to continue to talk about this. peter front is democratic strategist and communications group and former church committee staffer. top aide to frank church. all right, donald trump th

rudy giuliani, sydney powell, and jeffrey clark have been asking a lot of questions about them, so itoes appear that they could potentially have some legal exposur e. the question a lot of people have is, well, what about former president trump? based on the reporting from the team at this point, it's unclear if trump is a target, but we learn that witnesses have been asked a lot of questions recently about what he was doing before january 6, on that day, and after. so clearly, prosecutor still looking at him. completely unclear if you'll be charged. >> and those are some big names and trumps legal inner circle. stay with us. i want to keep you in this conversation as we bring in more of our legal experts. laura coates, i want to go to you first. how ominous of a sign is what paula was just describing, this increased activity? how ominous is that for the former president? >> well, it depends on what the ultimate focus is. it seems as though he's certainly isn't focused, because, of course, january 6 was the culmination of a series of events. it really circled around the former preside

according to the report, one of the figures involved in this reworking of the doj is jeffrey clark, you might remember that name because the former president tried to make him the attorney general during his final days in office, as part of his effort to overturn the election. joining us, now charlotte savage who shores a byline on the, story also andrew mccabe cnn senior law enforcement analyst and former deputy director, and for a, time the victim of the hunger for political payback. meaning through this, i was thinking about how we see a lot of talk from trump about the justice department, but not just empty rhetoric because what your reporting is there are actually people working behind the scenes to formulate a plan of what this would look like, of putting this in place. >> right, well, the first thing that has to be said, even though trump is saying if he gets into office again he is going to appoint special prosecutors to go after biden and hunter biden, the family, that is already happening under attorney general merrick garland of course. there is a trump appointed u.s. attorne

rudy giuliani, sidney powell, jeffrey clark. then who is a legal ally, i should say. the person not on that screen, and the person we don't really know very many details about is donald trump, and paula talked a little bit about that. the question is, we saw the indictment on unclassified documents that was very much about trump and trump's actions. it is a lot less clear how central the former president himself is on january 6th. >> sure, i think the key here from the justice department's perspective and the investigative timeline is that they're looking to see are they putting together a conspiracy case? was there a conspiracy to undermine the outcome of the election? and then who are all the different people who were potentially involved in that conspiracy. and the individuals that you just put up on the screen are key in terms of that. we have the low level people who were the electors who are the individuals that it sounds like they have offered immunity to. then at the very highest level, you have the former trump, but there's key people, these lawyers who were

jeffrey clark, john eastman. no movement toward any of them. so there has been sort of radio silence. it's still pending. it wouldn't surprise me if the ultimate decisions from doj is no charge against trump on january 6th. >> right. i guess that's really what i was asking -- do you read into this that maybe trump is getting a pass in the eyes of doj for gymn january 6th, or is it a straightforward case? >> i think both. i think this case and the indictment is fairly straightforward and well done. i think the charging of this case gave was merrick garland some political cover if he ends up not charging january 6th. i know we see garland and jack smith as the naun political icons, but they're aware of public perception. they understand it's important that doj be seen as fair. i think ultimately if garland does not charge for january 6th, people who would be upset may look at the charge we saw this week and think, well, at least he charged one of those cases. >> okay. i'm glad you brought up merrick garland, the attorney general, because previous

one of the workers is involved is jeffrey clark. you might remember that name because the former president tried to make him the attorney general during his final days in office as part of his effort to overturn the election. joining us now, charlie savage, who shares a biline on this new yorktimes story. also andy mccabe, former fbi deputy director, and four time a victim of the former president's hunger for political payback. charlie, reading through this, i was thinking about how we see a lot of talk from trump about the justice department. but it's not just empty rhetoric. you're reporting there are people working behind the scenes to formulate a plan of what this would look like, of putting this in place. >> right. the first thing that has to be said is even though trump is saying the if he gets into office again, he's going to appoint special prosecutors to go after biden and hunter biden, the family, that is already happening under attorney general merrick garland, of course, there is a trump-appointed u.s. attorney who is lo

you dealt with the 16 issues involving people like sydney powell and john eastman and jeffrey clark.'s nowhere to happen. we also have a question as to the impartiality of judge aileen cannon and these issues that we have to aim's point. somebody's issues and up for a supreme court of the 90s that has very little faith in the american public for the american public has very little faith in terms of the integrity. give us some help, congressman. give me, as a former trial lawyer, but an american citizen -- give us some hope that rule of law still applies within the confines or within the parameters of our judicial system. >> well, first of all, i can see the premise of your question which is that all of this is taking place at a moment of plummeting can finance in the u.s. supreme court and the judicial system because justices like clarence thomas, not him exclusively, but there are several others who have been engaged in highly suspect kinds of actions that call their objectivity and neutrality into question. now, we have this aileen cannon, a judge who is appointed by donald trump.

push the fake electors scheme, rudy giuliani, potentially soon-to-be disbarred john eastman and jeffrey clarkand jury in washington, d.c., as jack smith's investigation into january 6th. brown was trump's deputy elector of election-day operations and is accused of being involved in trump's fake elector scheme. jack smith has compelled at least two republican fake electors to testify to a federal grand jury in washington by giving them limited immunity, part of a current push by federal prosecutors to swiftly nail down evidence in the sprawling criminal investigation in the effort os overturn the 2020 election. the testimony dwribed to cnn by people familiar with the situation comes after a year of relative dormancy around the fake electors. "that activity could signal that investigators are nearing at least some charging decisions in art. of the 2020 election probe. the plot thickens. former deputy assistant to the attorney general and former principal deputy assistant, charles mccord, and former top official at the department of justice, also an msnbc legal analyst and honorary wingman, andr