jeffrey goldberg is joining me now from washington. lcome to the program. >> thank you. >> so, jeffrey, your title of your art hicle has a bold headline. senior white house official defines the trump doctrine, we're america and i'm going to say it rhymed with rich. were you shocked by that. >> i'm not shocked by anything anymore. that was one of the slogans that people came up with for me when i was asking them this question, if you could put into a slogan or a saying, something other than america first, which we know obviously. this is one of the them that came up. this was a very high ranking official. the attitude behind it is what's interesting. the attitude behind it, which is the kind of anti-obama sort of, we're america, take it or leave it. we're the superpower. you follow our rules or you get off the highway. the second piece that was interesting to me was this is their self-perception. right? this is not necessarily how everyone around the world views them. but this is their self-perception. that's certainly not the attitude w

well jeffrey goldberg got three different characterizations supposedly from three different anonymous officials within the trumpet ministration of how to divine the trump foreign policy the first one was this no friends no enemies which is a very realistic interpretation. unfortunately trump if he wanted to pursue that i don't think he's had the ability to pursue that as much as he would like one of the sec it once i think will feed a lot of conspiracy theories that may not be conspiracy theories anymore that permanent destabilisation creates american advantage while that that sums up american foreign policy and military policy and what they've done in the middle east the support of. terrorists you know in libya and syria and so on and the last one sums it up as far as the liberals are concerned we're america be i think of breaking bad everybody i think you know i mean you know. also you could say in a kind of as a extra layer from what we've heard from patrick and from mark is that trump is determined to do everything barack obama did ok everything well you know a strange way yes and

well jeffrey goldberg got three different characterizations supposedly from three different anonymous officials within the trumpet ministration of how to define the trump foreign policy the first one was this no friends no enemies which is a very realistic interpretation. unfortunately trump if he wanted to pursue that i don't think he's had the ability to pursue that as much as he would like what one of the second ones i think will feed a lot of conspiracy theories that may not be conspiracy theories anymore that permanent destabilisation creates american advantage while that that sums up american foreign policy and military policy and what they've done in the middle east the support of. terrorists you know in libya and syria and so on and the last one sums it up as far as the liberals are concerned we're america i think of breaking bad everybody i think you know i mean you know. also you could say in a kind of is a extra layer of from what we've heard from patrick and from mark is that trump is determined to undo everything barack obama did ok everything well you know a strange way

obama does a long interview with a man named jeffrey goldberg of land a monthly magazine one of his people he liked a lot twenty thousand word interview in the middle of the interview he says about that incident the red line the head of national intelligence a general named clapper air force one comes to see me and he says mr president. it's not a slam dunk which is you know like considered to be the that libya perhaps it's not that you know it so he didn't do the bombing because he didn't think he could win the case in the public arena that's why to do the bombing not because there was a deal made on getting rid of weapons he lied and so i write this stuff he didn't tell the truth syria wanted to get rid of this. what pushchairs i want to i wrote in two thousand and three for the new yorker quoting mostafa to last the head of the fence of a. defense minister of syria and been defense minister for ten twenty years wrote a lot of poetry was tough and i quote him saying at one point there was a worry that america may take syria and i said what would you do then he said what could i do and i

than china jeffrey goldberg in the atlantic this week did it in article he's famous for giving this softball interview he's the one i. apologise where obama told him that his former. policy was simply don't do stupid stuff stuff yes show we did it. well a jumper goldberg got three different characterizations supposedly from three different anonymous officials within the trump administration of how to define the trump foreign policy the first one was this no friends no enemies which is a very realistic interpretation. unfortunately trump if he wanted to pursue that i don't think he's had the ability to pursue that as much as he would like.

than china jeffrey goldberg in the atlantic this week did it in article he's famous for giving this softball interview he was the one i. apologise where obama told him that his former. policy was simply don't do stupid stuff stuff yes shall we say it was. well a jumper goldberg got three different characterizations supposedly from three different anonymous officials within the trump administration of how to define the trump foreign policy the first one was this no friends no enemies which is a very realistic interpretation. unfortunately trump if he wanted to pursue that i don't think he's had the bill it need to pursue that as much as he would like what one of the second it once i think will feed a lot of conspiracy theories that may not be conspiracy theories anymore that permanent destabilisation creates american advantage while that that sums up american foreign policy and military policy and what they've done in the middle east their support of. terrorists you know in libya and syria and so on and the last one sums it up as far as the liberals are concerned we're america be i think of b

obama does a long interview with a man named jeffrey goldberg of land a monthly magazine one of his people he liked a lot twenty thousand word interview in the middle of the interview he says about that incident the red line the head of national intelligence a general named clapper air force one comes to see me and he says mr president. it's not a slam dunk which is you know like considered to be the that libya perhaps you know it's not that you know it so he didn't do the bombing because he didn't think he could win the case in the public arena that's why i did do the bombing not because there was a deal made on getting rid of weapons he lied and so i write this stuff you didn't tell the truth syria wanted to get rid of this weapon for showers i want to go i wrote in two thousand and three for the new yorker quoting most often to last the head of the fence of. these defense minister of syria i've been defense minister for ten twenty years wrote a lot of poetry stuff and i quote him saying at one point there was a worry that america may take syria and i said what would you do then he said

. >> reporter: atlantic magazine writer jeffrey goldberg had a different interpretation of the good booksomething immoral even if the rule tells you to do it. it is not the strongest ground in the world. >> reporter: of god is watching this he is aware this is washington and this is an election year and the heat of rhetorical battle some may need forgiveness for forgetting john chapter 8 verse 7, quote, let him who is without sin cast the first stone. shannon: we all need mercy and forgiveness every day. it is a wise move for politicians to resort to scripture in this debate? robert jeffers. i want to play something that is giving attention, this comes from democratic sen. kiersten jell-o brand --. what she's seen on capitol hill, here's a bit of her comment. >> a lot of ideas in this country are dark ideas, building walls, dividing the country, marginalizing members, kids who are transgender, not supporting daca kids, these come from the darkness, ripping children from their mothers arms, that is outrageous. shannon: a lot of people say she is genuine and her faith and feeling she's cal

we'll also bring in editor of the "atlantic" magazine jeffrey goldberg. >>> plus, in 2016, michigan'shth congressional district helped pave the way to donald trump's presidency. this november, that same district could help democrats win back the house. nbc news national political reporter heidi przybyla will have that story. "morning joe" is coming right back. how do you win at business? stay at la quinta. where we're changing with stylish make-overs. then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. bravo, tall meeting man. start winning today. book now at lq.com i'm t he only bed that actually senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable... does your bed do that? i'm the new sleep number 360 smart bed. let's meet at a sleep number store. with my bladder leakage, the products i've tried just didn't fit right. they were very saggy. it's getting in the way of our camping trips. but with new sizes, depend fit-flex is made for me. introducing more sizes for better comfort. new depend fit-flex underwear is guaranteedo be you

joining in conversation is another top foreign-policy thinker, jeffrey goldberg. he's the author 2006 prisoners which details experiences working at an israeli prison and one prisoner he came to the befriend. as a conductor several landmark interviews with barack obama is spent his presidency. please me while commute i guess to politics and prose. [applause] [applause] >> good evening. >> welcome to politics and prose. thank you for coming out to large numbers. we will try to cover all of american foreign policy from 1945 in the first five minutes and then we'll see what happens. to make it easy for you because you don't have experience with public speaking of the media, i thought i would start with the easiest question i could think of. there will move toward syria. the easiest question is this. what would have been the reaction if barack obama had saluted a north korean general? just describe it in voluminous detail what you think the reaction may have been? >> there is one time when we were traveling to saudi arabia where he went like this, for years that was t

well, the atlantic's jeffrey goldberg has been interviewing administration officials to see if they canescribe a "trump doctrine." and one senior staffer summed it up as "no friends, no enemies." good news, we're halfway there! ( laughter ) and trump doesn't believe that the u.s. should be part of any alliance at all, and that even though allies "expect a level of loyalty from us, he doesn't believe that this should factor nyay to aiance.n." particularly if he just met a younger, hotter alliance and the old alliance just had a baby. ( audience reacts ) >> jon: oh, that's cold. >> stephen: that joke, i remind you, is based on a true story. ( laughter ) but perhaps the most succinct summation came from one trump official who said, "the trump doctrine is, 'we're america, bitch.'" ( laughter ) huh, that's weird because it really looks like "we're russia's bitch." ( audience reacts ) we've got a great show for you tonight. chris matthews is here, stick around! ( cheers and applause ) ( band playing ) hey! we didn't have a homeowners claim last year so allstate is giving us money back on our

described what was described as -- a new trump doctrine in colorful language in a conversation with jeffrey goldberg>> exactly. they are reporting a senior white house aide described it we're america, bitch. it speaks to the approach the president takes with allies and with enemies. it's unnecessary. i have to tell you, i bristle at the use of the world doctrine when we come to describing president trump's pattern of behavior. a doctrine should be what the administration is for. often it's about what he is against. what we see is a pattern of behavior that is defined by being transactional, marriages of convenience and double standards. we see that with north korea. the president has decido ignore what china is doing in other areas to get them on side with north korea. he has a double standard when it comes to meeting with kim jong-un who has done none of the things that secretary pom-ppeo said iran needs to do to come to the negotiating table. >> very quickly, what's your reaction? >> it's stunning to hear that language as we quoted from the senior white house official coming out of the white house

this is from jeffrey goldberg, the big boss at the atlantic.otes a senior white house official as being asked to define the trump doctrine and he said the llowing, we're america, bitch. now reminder, those aren't my words. don't isolate that out and say i'm saying that. and this is a slight overstatement exaggeration of what i do think broadly speaking is trump's view of the world. which is we have kowtowed and bowed and scraped to the world community for too long. that photo, that photo now iconic the angela murkle office sent out and my guess is donald trump is happy with that photo. it is him standing up to the world. remember when he pulled out of paris, he said i need to look out for pittsburgh, not paris. and that is what that photo in his mind shows. >> but dana, we've been talking -- interviewing donald trump for a long time and 19 years ago listen to what he told me in a cnn interview because he sounds remarkably similar to what he said now. listen to this. >> north korea is totally out of control and would you rather have a very, very

today a senior white house official telling jeffrey goldberg at "the atlantic."ica, b. that's the doctrine. it may be revealing in helps to display an outburst he had in canada, calling the prime minister weak as dishonest, as well as the approach trump has been taken at times, which has been all about attitude. >> i think i'm very well prepared. i don't think i have to prepare very much about the attitude. it's about -- willingness to get things down. how long will it take to figure it out whether or not they're serious? maybe in a minute. you know when they say you'll like somebody in five seconds? well, i think that very quickly i'll know whether or not something good is going to happen. >>> joined by a man who spent time in north korea, max baucus, as and back with me chris hill. ambassador baucus, thank you for being here. is this real? did that sound like something any white house adviser would say? and is there any substantive -- >> this may be flip. i think the trump done trick is trump ego, frankly. he doesn't listen to his advisers very much he doesn't

maybe the most -- takeaway quoted by jeffrey goldberg who writes in "the atlantic."distillation of the trump kodoctrine came from a direct senior adviser and his talking to the president a couple weeks ago, by way of introduction, it might be too early to discern definitive trump doctrine. no, the official said. definitely there's a trump doctrine. what is it i asked? here's the answer i received. the trump doctrine is, we're america, bitch. that's the trump doctrine. i mean -- you've covered him so closely. he really does feel he needs go into a negotiation with perhaps the fire and fury of the first 15 months or 14 months of this administration and rocket man and now we see the transformation of donald trump. into trying to develop a personal relationship with one of america's toughest adversaries. >> no doubt, andrea. that description is so remarkable, because i've been trying to pin down the president's doctrine since he first took office and i haven't been able to do it, and yet that does seem to get very close based on what we saw after the g7 summit. this abou

joining ben rhodes in conversation tonight is another of the top thinkers jeffrey goldberg. you may know him as editor-in-chief of the atlantic as a contributor for the countless publications in the "washington post" to the new yorker to new york magazine and a dusty author that detailed the experience on the israeli military person specifically the encounter with when he came to the friend perhaps the most relevant for tonight's podcast the conduct of several landmark interviews with barack obama that spanned the presidency from beginning to end please try me in welcoming ben rhodes and jeffrey to politics and prose. [applause] [inaudible] welcome, everyone to politics and prose. thanks for coming out in such large numbers of. we are going to try to cover all of american foreign policy from 1945 to present. in the first five minutes. then we'll see what happens. to make it easy for you because you don't have experience in public speaking i thought i would start with literally the easiest question i could think of and then move towards syria. [laughter] the easiest question

bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ >> brennan: jeffrey goldberg is editor in chief of "the atlantic."ana johnson is national political reporter and ben domenech of the federal wrist and rachelwe heard lot th presens atm senator herself. on latest development with the president's legal problem. what do you make of what you just heard, rachel? >> first of all, you could see rudy guiliani segue. -- segmenting i should say. he went four times back to this new revelation that there was fbi agent who was engaging in some poe continue systemly political bias at the fbi basically property pointing to the text necessariages where agents said, we're going to stop president trump from getting to the white house. it's one thing forn to have political beliefs, you're allowed to do that obviously, it's a free country. another thing to act on them. inspector general in that report said that text messages suggest that this agent was willing to act on his political bias. i think this is interesting because the segueing that you just saw with guiliani, what republicans are going to do from here on out

. >> "atlantic" magazine writer jeffrey goldberg had an entirely different interpretation. >> one of the themes of the bible is, don't do something immoral even if the ruler tells you to do it. so it's not the strongest ground in the world that the attorney general standing on. >> if god is watching all this, he is no doubt aware that this is washington and it's an election year, and in the heat of rhetorical battle, then we need forgiveness for forgetting john chapter eight verse seven, quote let him who is without sin cast the first stone. >> we all need that mercy and forgiveness every day. thank you. is it a wise move move for politicians to resort to scripture? dr. robert jeffers, great to have you with us. i want to play something that's getting a lot of attention, this comes from democratic senator kirsten gillibrand. she talks about apostles and ephesians and some of what she is seen being carried out on capitol hill. >> there are a lot of ideas in this country that are dark ideas. building walls, dividing the country, marginalizing trans members who are troops, marginalizing

democrats say this is -- this is the point that trump has started this and the editor in chief, jeffrey goldbergicial what is the trump doctrine and that is senior administration official responded, quote, the trump doctrine is we're america, bitch. and when explaining the person said, quote, obama apologized to everyone for everything he felt bad about and trump doesn't feel like he has to apologize for anything. america does. so where america -- the trump doctrine and simone, that is what i'm hearing from people on the left. it is he started it. >> he did start it. but to be frank, robert de niro doesn't speak for the totality of the democratic party, the resistance or whoever. neither does sam an the bee or bill mar. but the issue is we are -- some folks but not me but some democrats and folks on the left are allowing the right to frame this conversation so he comes out and said f trup and the democrats are waging war and we have to hunker down on the right. we cannot allow ourselves to be tricked into using the rhetoric and the playbook of the right. so, look, i don't really give a damn abou

the atlantic's jeffrey goldberg reportedoday on his effort to find the trump doctrine of foreign policy. he writes the best distillation of the trump doctrine i heard, though, came from a senior white house official with direct access to the president and his thinking. i was talking to this person several weeks ago when i said by way of introduction that i thought it might perhaps be too early to discern a definitive trump doctrine. no, the official said, there is definitely a trump doctrine. what is it, i asked? here is the answer i received. the trump doctrine is we're america, expletive. that's the trump doctrine. for more, jonathan swan is national reporter for axios. ginger gibson correspondent for reuters, and eli stokols is white house correspondent for "the l.a. times" and an msnbc political analyst. all of you, thank you. put that together, jonathan, i'm not sure that relates, that language we just heard about basically it's us, the heck with you. and i mean that. that's basically what it says in worse language. how does that fit with this almost date that we're watching with k

. >> shannon: there's been specum.sm across the political let's start with jeffrey goldberg in the atlantic "donald trump is pursuing policies that undermine the western alliance and power, russia, and china and demoralize freedom seeking people. the united states could be weaker by the invitation of the trump doctrine." >> it is so ridiculous. if that article, if people want to check it out, probably one of the most condescending and sneering beginnings to an article i've ever read basically saying that president trump is illiterate and doesn't have a thought in his head. so typical of the snooty elite who can't say anything good about what this president is doing because he is challenging their worldview. nothing wrong with that. that's what he was elected you and that's what needs to be done. these alliances are strong. these alliances are going to be there many, many years into the future. what he's trying to do is rebalathe relationship so it's not always america giving and everyone elseaking. trying to get on a more even playing field. it will get good results, i'm confident of that.