we're joined by the firm founder and chief executive officer jeffrey gundlach the markets, the fed and the president and everything on the menu in the next 60 minutes. we welcome in jeffrey gundlach thank you for having us once again. >> welcome to double line ged. >> this final fed day of the year >> yep. >> what do you expect today? >> i think i saw on cnbc yesterday there was a survey and the result was unanimous 100% said the fed isn't going to do anything and i have nothing to add to that. because that seems absolutely positively correct the fed will keep rates unchanged and possibly have a message that they are kind of encouraging inflation to go higher one of the most important statements that i think has gotten less play than it should is jay powell said in late october we would have to see rise inflation persistent to consider raising interest rates to fight inflation so the fed wants inflation to be higher actually. and they've contextualized this by saying 2% was our target for many years and we fell short and now we need to fill the gap of -- which makes no sense to me what

we welcome in jeffrey gundlach thank you for having us once again. >> welcome to double line ged. >>final fed day of the year >> yep. >> what do you expect today? >> i think i saw on cnbc yesterday there was a survey and the result was unanimous

dani: 35% is what jeffrey gundlach says are the odds of a recession in 2020. reduction from the 75% he saw in september. consumer confidence is holding up and we are seeing the market to economic indicators still positive. for him, the recession is about in-line from what we see from economists at bloomberg, 33 percent chance of recession. the other warning he gave his bbbing of triple be -- of related bonds. it is interesting, when we jump b lookse charts what bb like and the down risk they get related to junk. has narrowed to basically a cycle will over here. the borrowing benches gone on by these companies, but jeffrey gundlach says if you were holding onto bbb they are under threat to be downgraded to junk because with the leverage ratio they should be downgraded to junk. he says looking at the spread, once the cycle turns, these will become more illiquid and hard to sell. bonds inld bbb related your portfolio, jeffrey gundlach says it is not too soon to take action. so much, thank you dani burger with the latest on your markets. "bloomberg surveillance" c

what the ratio means for yields and wise star investor jeffrey gundlach sees the needs ahead for treasuryowls. -- bulls. this is bloomberg. ♪ amanda: this is "bloomberg markets." i'm amanda lange. shery: i'm shery ahn in new york. using u.s.-china trade tensions have lifted copper to their highest level since july. the risk on rally has logged on gold. is signaling a change in 10 yields.asury to help us break it down, let's bring in katy rifle who spoke with him earlier. how high does he see yields going? katie: he is looking at this ratio with copper to gold. copper has been accelerating versus gold. it is at its highest relative price since july. gun lock is looking at that relationship and ratio and he thinks that speaks for a 10 year yields to be closer to 2.15%. we are at about 1.88% right now. that would be a big move, 25 basis points. course, copper moves with economic prospects, i guess we would expect it to move on relief around china. what about gold? has it been driven by fear and that is why we see a disconnect? katie: exactly. if you look at gold prices, they peaked at the sa

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dani burger with the very latest on jeffrey gundlach. in its final rate decision for the year today with policymakers all but certain to hold. many expect the event to be a snooze event for the markets. bank of america strategists see an outside chance that the a fomc's dot plot might signal a rate increase in 2020. let's get to bnp paribas' mark 360 guest host. goldman goes on to say that you have other risks which might be at a pretty high bar. what do you think the risks are of a hawkish dot plot? plot mediumthe dot for next year will be left unchanged but the medium will cover up that 17 of 17 -- seven of 17 will be looking for rates higher next year. a higher chance of hikes going forward. statement today, we think only moderate changes. perhaps when characterizing the job market, the language could be changed statement today, we k only moderate from solid to str. on the consumption side, perhaps from strong to solid. we would really argue these are minor changes. more important is how u.s. data evolves heading into q1. the view fro

comments fromome jeffrey gundlach saying the odds of recession have fallen and there seems to be an outbreak of optimism going on, doesn't it? garfield: at the very least, a waiting in pessimism. there is cautious optimism growing. somewhat disbelieving perhaps at just how resilient the u.s. consumer is being in the face of some other objects that are not that great. you look at what is going on with manufacturing. u.s. manufacturers are expecting to cut investment next year for the first time since 2009. even the services pmi's have not been great, so there have been some worrying signs, but there is definitely a feeling that recession panic that we had two months to three months ago was overblown. we are not going to get a recession. then the risk is how do you manage as it were if a move away from a fed that is using to a safeguard for the expansion of a fed that presumably would be on the lookout for a move back to a hawkish bias if the economy recovers faster than expected. that creates a fresh slew of uncertainties, and good luck -- he was talking about the potential for yields to rise