the other e-mail is actually sort of reinforces that and that is from jeffrey lacker, who was a president, i believe, of the federal reserve bank of richmond at that time and i think he's a voting member now. this e-mail was also cc to the chairman, i believe. just had a long talk with ben, ben bernanke, i presume, says they think the mac threat is irrelevant because it's not credible and tends to make it more clear that if they, meaning bank of america, play their card and then need assistance, management is gone, period. and then says forgot to tell them that kl, i believe that's you, ken lewis is near retirement, close. the there's a different dynamic going on here. there is -- remember the context of all of this is the sky is falling, as mr. cummings said. and tremendous pressure on everyone. they think you're playing a game. they think you're throwing this thing out as a red herring in that they think what you're really trying to do and what some people suggest you might have been doing was to leverage taxpayer support by falsely putting this mac out there. the fact that you're going