let's jump to jeh johnson, if i could, mr. secretary, we watched the january 6th committee final hearing this week. the full report is coming out today. i'm curious what you'll be looking for in that, or what will be of interest to you. and also, just overall, the four criminal referrals. we know the doj can choose to do whatever they want. they can ignore them if they want. they can ignore all of the information coming their way. chances are, they're not going to ignore it. but i'm curious about the mark meadows, dan scavino and others, how they were handled in this entire operation. and the question surrounding whether or not they have already flipped and are working with the doj. >> that's a good question, i've heard speculation about that earlier on this show. mika, i know from authoring government reports myself, that probably 95% of people who read government repors read the executive summary. so, to me, it was absolutely right tole release the executive summary first. it's 160, i'm sure ali vitali and carol and i are go

if you look at secretary mayorkas he worked under secretary jeh johnson.e learned from him it's got a lot of career people that are ready to do their job. the problem as it got to get that green light from the white house. with all due respect listening to immigration activists is one thing you've got to listen to the men and women in green and blue at the border. especially you've got to listen to the border communities where i live. that is listen to the mayors of the county judges the sheriffs the police chiefs and all the folks at land owners who lived on you are's got to listen to them. neil: we do not with the administration's plan is in less than two weeks when title 42 goes away. so i can only rely on you congressman to say what you would want. what would that be? >> i am hoping title 42 will stay on for a while longer. before he got title 42 we had another process called title eight. still the law. title viii can work it just takes a little longer and cost a lot more money, a lot more resources. but keep in mind secretary jeh johnson, keep using i

let's discuss with former homeland security secretary jeh johnson.eing here. >> pleasure to be here, ana. >> so you've dealt during your tenure with an influx of migrants but the sheer numbers were nowhere near these levels. how concerning is this? >> the problem is much bigger now than it was seven, eight years ago. smugglers are better able at moving larger numbers of migrants. we see caravans, in addition, we're now seeing migrants from nicaragua, from cuba, from venezuela, countries with whom we have little or no diplomatic relationship, so it's very, very difficult to repatriate migrants to a country that refuses to take them back, so the hard lesson i learned from all of this, ana, dealing with this problem, the push factors, the reasons why families, women, children, fathers, leave central america, leave venezuela, nicaragua in the first place. it will overwhelm whatever defense we can put up on our southern border. they're making the basic choice, i'm better off in the united states even if it's only for a few years while my asylum claim is p

that's averaging 8,000 a day jeh johnson said 1,000 amounted to a crisis. times what he would have described as a crisis under obama. >> ainsley: if you read that "new york post" you think the border is out of control now just wait 8 days because title 42 ends. estimating 47,000 are waiting to get. in threatening to overwhelm el paso and other border towns. most of them are trying to get in under the economic opportunity excuse that we're coming here to make money for our family. but they are saying that cannot be the basis for an asylum claim. so those don't qualify but they are still going to be allowed to come in. and the shelters are already at capacity down there. >> steve: because, when you think about it, ainsley and will. you know, as joe biden's administration allows all these people into this country illegally. >> you know, in five years when a judge rules against them are they going to leave? absolutely not. it will be like the dreamer situation. the number one crossing from mexico into the united states is el paso. and last night at their city c

great to have jeh johnson here, especially with what is going on in north carolina this morning gl yeah, it's amazing. we're going to get to georgia in a second, but you're right, tens of thousands of north carolina residents spent another night in the cold after officials say someone deliberately opened fire on two energy substations. joining us now from moor county, north carolina, nbc news correspondent blayne alexander. what are we learning not only about the state of emergency that's been put in place there, but what exactly happened? >> reporter: willie, good morning to you. this morning there are still some 37,000 people in this area who don't have power, who don't have heat, and we're talking about temperatures in the low 40s. we know that crews are working around the clock to repair two very severely damaged substations, but they say it could be as late as thursday before the majority of people see their lights back on. meanwhile, investigators here are still looking into what they call a willful and malicious attack. as the sun sets on moore county, north carolina, tens of tho

remember when barack obama's dhs secretary jeh johnson admitted that numbers like these are cause for concern? "i know that 100 apprehensions overwhelm the system and i can begin to imagine what 4,000 a day looks like, so we are truly in a crisis." if 1,000 per day is a crisis, robert, what is 8,000 per day, which is what we saw just this weekend? >> todd and carley, you begin to lose the right words to say "crisis" in bold print. we had 2.9 million expulsions under title 42 between march of 2020 and april of 2022. i think what happens is if you send a signal to the world and in particular to this hemisphere that you don't respect your own sovereignty, people will pour in. there are caravans of buses heading our way. don't think for a minute this is just a texas problem. i was just in texas but it's not a texas problem. every state today is a border state. look at the other side of this and look at the drug problem. it's contradictory to say on the one hand that you think we have a drug crisis and on the other hand you want to keep the border open. it's ironic, really. george herbert

to give context, i think we've all seen the clips of jeh johnson, the former homeland security secretarynder president obama who once said during a hearing if they were seeing 1,000 apprehensions a day, that would strain the system. that's the entire system. and just in el paso we're seeing 2,000 now potentially going upwards. this is a crisis. i think president biden, to show that there's going to be a change, he has to get rid of all of his officials that were involved in border security. i think that includes secretary ma ma ma mayorkas because they have no credibility inside the united states or outside the united states. and people think the u.s. has open borders and it doesn't. these communities, places like el paso, these are inhumane policies. i can make an argument that president biden's policies were more inhumane than president trumps, and his were horrible. you're going to have thousands of people sleeping on the streets of el paso and this week it's probably going to be below 20 degrees. that's an imhumane policy and they need to do more. >> i've us time here. i understand y

will: jeh johnson, said 1000 was a crisis. pete: that is it was. i got the wrong name.alk about incentives. milton friedman had welfare state. you can have open borders, welfare state. will: cannot have both. pete: you cannot have both. if you do, it is open season to get the types of programs. these are types of federal laws, incentives someone might get when they come here. they may not become citizens but birthright citizenship is real thing. you have a child while here illegally, that child becomes a citizen. that is just to start, will. will: many of these programs are driven out of empathy. you want to help those in need. the question isn't whether or not you should or shouldn't. the question is, is it incentive to attack further illegal immigration. pete: good point. will: look at community health centers, foosing assistance, housing programs. pete: you will provide educations for kids. you're a parent, you're 10-year-old, you can't go to school. we're providing that. we're not saying right or wrong in that particular context. that attracts people to come to the

jeh johnson, former homeland security adviser, a thousand a day used to be a five-alarm fire for them. we're seeing numbers that are overwhelming capacity and in el paso it's release toing migrants on the streets who may not have a court date but a date to report to an i.c.e. office, they might not have shelter, things usually set in place to welcome in asylum seeker whence they first come into the country. it's called provisional release and they usually only do it for single families, but it means they're sleeping on the street. it's a reason why the democratic mayor in el paso took a page out of the book of republican governors and started busing migrants to interior cities as well. it's a chaotic view and something the biden administration is watching closely. right now we have new reporting coming on this soon on nbc news today, the biden administration is looking that the chaos and trying to come up with new policies to prevent further chaos next week when, absent court intervention, we will see those covid restrictions lift and any nationality can cross and claim asylum. >> con

. >>> joining us now is jeh johnson, former department of homeland security secretary during the obamadepartment -- for the defense department in the earlier administration. no former u.s. president has been charged with a crime. it would seem likely that the justice department would want an airtight case. you are a former prosecutor. talk to me about what the stakes are. does this report jam them a little bit by being so high profile with so much information? it's not evidence but it's information. a lot of testimony. does had a make it harder for them? >> without a doubt, the report puts political and public pressure on the department of justice to do something. in my view, what happened on january 6 was the very definition of an insurrection. and as the committee pointed out, inciting an insurrection, giving comfort to an insurrection is a criminal offense. what the department of justice is focused on and needs to be focused on can we prove these things against donald trump with admissible evidence. you need to prove criminal intent you need to prove what donald trump did, what he t

what's interesting about that is is jeh johnson, when he was the director talked openly and often aboutow often he got a report of how many people illegally crossed the border. in fact, he said when he was the director of dhs, every single morning he got a report of how many people illegally crossed the border the day before. they knew to the day. i've been to a facility here in washington, d.c. that they can w many people have illegally crossed our border every single hour of the day 365 days of the year. it's the 21st of december and we've requested how many people illegally crossed the border in the month of december, and they said they're still working on it. let me just tell you why that's relevant. because the department of homeland security is in full-on chaos mode trying to be able to figure out how to manage thousands and thousands of people illegally crossing our border not yearly, not monthly. daily now. daily. jeh johnson, when he was at homeland security under the obama administration, said he knew it was going to be a very bad day when 1,000 people crossed the border illeg

that was a crisis level that jeh johnson came out and said this is crisis level surge. it was 569,000 people that year illegally crossed the border. to put that in context, we've had that many people illegally cross the border in the last two months. what the obama administration called a crisis over 12 months, we've had in the last two. we have well over two million people a year that are illegally crossing the border now, and in the last two months since the nearing of title 42 is coming, that number is rapidly increasing. during the obama administration, they called it a crisis if there were 1,500 people illegally crossing the border a day. we're now approaching 9,000 people illegally crossing the border a day. and when i ask what is the plan, i get, well, we have this six-point plan. here's the problem -- when i dig a little bit deeper, and we have been digging deeper to be able to find out how this is working, currently there are no cooperative agreements with other countries to be able to turn back individuals where we don't have a relationship. i know that's on t

we will be joined by former homeland security, jeh johnson.cance of ukraine's president zelenskyy visit to washington today amid the war going on in his country. it's the first known visit abroad he has made since the invasion began. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back. wow! what'd you get, ryan? it's customized home insurance from liberty mutual!!! what does it do, bud? it customizes our home insurance so we only pay for what we need! and what did you get, mike? i got a bike. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty. an answer. uncovered through exploration, teamwork, and innovation. an answer that leads to even more answers. mayo clinic. you know where to go. >>> ukrainian president volodymyr zel