joining us live now to talk about this is cal perks state director jen engstrom. thanks for showing up and being with us. what does your report show? >> yeah. thank you so much for having me. so our report, plastic bag bans work shows that well-designed plastic bag bans are effective at reducing plastic litter in our communities. but unfortunately, the way californians bag law is set up is that it's no longer working as intended. the problem? >> explain that to us. right. because i understand there was something the law that allowed the retailers to ask manufacturers to make really thick, heavy plastic bags that can be reused many times over, they don't break because they're thick. but then the problem resulted from that. tell us. yeah >> so the problem is that the plastics industry has been working to circumvent the law's intent by mass producing these thicker plastic bags that they claim are exempt from the law because they technically meet the law's requirements for reusable bag, but they're not really being reused. they're not really designed to be reused, and