jen gruber is also a serial entrepreneur. she's launched three businesses, as well. s also the author of the book "what if, and why not?" . and alfred edmund is the multimedia editor at large for black enterprise dotcom. great to see all of you >> thank you for having me. >> phil, you -- you kind of reopened one of your first businesses, but you did see a failure in your business, and that's what you think makes your success now, correct? >> absolutely. i had seven years to think about what i could do different when phil the fire closed back in 2004. but i also had to reinvent myself in that process. so i had to distinguish between defeat and failure, between my emotions and my passion, and between who i am and what i did. and through that process i was able to bring phil the fire back stronger, better, and do the things right when i was given the chance to take a second bite at the apple. >> i think what you just said is so interesting. this idea of distinguishing about emotions and passion. because that's the only way you could learn, right? i mean, your book, what