jen palmieri, let's play cassidy hutchinson. this is what she had to say about what was happening. >> tony described him as being irate. the president said something to the effect of i'm the effing president, take me up to the capitol now. the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm and said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. >> so, jen, you know her proximity and what she was told. you can imagine also there are occasions when someone might have -- somebody in the detail might have texted ornato even if they don't usually text and say you won't believe what's going on with the boss. >> yeah. i had the same job that cassidy hutchinson had for leon panetta when he was chief of staff. so you hear and see a lot and you get surprised how frank and candid senior staff are to you. there's a lot of venting that happens around that person. they're often the best source person in the white house. but, you know,