and then he flies out there with jenna ellis, another trump attorney, and shows up for the meeting, and rusty says where is the evidence? they look at each other, go, we kind of left it in the hotel room. and he goes, we have theories but we don't have a lot of evidence. and a guy who spent decades in the legal field to behave this way is almost unfathomable. i don't know what made the turn in him. i have a theory. i think it has to do with his hatred of hillary clinton that put him in the trump camp. an important thing to remember at this moment is after this, he has to deal, as the rev noted, with this criminal case in atlanta. there are three attorneys, former trump attorneys, three, kenneth chesebro, sidney powell, and jenna ellis. and they have all worked with rudy in trying to overturn the election. and they all have now pleaded guilty, and they have said, crimes were committed, by pleading guilty, they have conceded in this effort to overturn the election that he led, crimes were committed. two of those people, sidney powell and jenna ellis, were at that infamous hair dye drippin

at least jenna ellis, who said this in a georgia court. >> i endeavored to represent my client to the best of my ability. i relied on others including lawyers with many more years of experience than i to provide me with true and reliable information. what i did not do but should have done, your honor, was to make sure that the facts the other lawyers alleged to be true were in fact true. >> she talks as if she's like an 8-year-old. she's a grown adult. but still, at least she did that. sidney powell, rudy giuliani still have not admitted their actions were wrong. what do you think justice would look like for these attorneys that so misled the nation? >> yeah, well, i think you've seen in both of those cases, in the case of rudy giuliani, his license to practice law has been suspended. i mean, sidney powell's assertion in one of the dominion cases was that no reasonable person would actually believe the claims that she was making. >> which is true, by the way. >> but an interesting defense for her to be making. and i think it's really a situation where people ought to imagine that if d

whether jenna ellis meant it or not with the crocodile tears. we'll see, maybe when push comes to shove and she's called to testify against people like donald trump at trial, but the one sentence apologies, they didn't really move the needle for me. we also know, ana, don't we, that sidney powell is still running around claiming that she was kind of bullied into taking this plea. kenneth chesebro, i will give him a little bit of credit, he is cooperaing with authorities in other states when it concerns the fake elector schemes investigated in those other states. to that end perhaps kenneth chesebro is still making amends on his retribution tour. these were conditions of the plea agreements that these defendants reached. apparently the d.a.'s office found them to be satisfactory, but i think the real question is how good were those recorded proffers that they were required to give as well, and how good is their testimony going to be should these cases go to trial. >> but gwen, still, a one-sentence apology letter, is that what the d.a. had in min

now jenna ellis saying outloud this was a plan to interrupt the counting of votes and knew that was a straight forward, inunambiguous level of -- one question is how high it must go, and we'll ask ms. cheney when we return live in 60 seconds. conds. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ sometimes your work shirt needs to be for more than just work. like when it needs to be a big soft shoulder to cry on. which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. downy. breathe life into your laundry. >>> remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. i will not participate in that.

. - jenna ellis... - he could take military capabilities, and he could place them in those states andhe disgraced former general, you know, and a group of lawyers who probably couldn't get hired by a c-grade law firm. they're technically lawyers, but they're willing to say, like, any damn thing. they're willing to say that the deceased president of venezuela somehow orchestrated a way to steal ballots and fly them to germany? - the dominion voting systems, the smartmatic technology software, were created in venezuela at the direction of hugo chavez. - it's loony, but so is qanon, and people believe that. - we let this happen, we're gonna become venezuela. - at one point, rudy giuliani decides they were gonna do a press conference at the four seasons, but their operation is so incompetent, they wind up at, like, i think it might be, like, a massage parlor. - yes, the four seasons. but it was, like, the four seasons laundromat. - four seasons total landscaping. they end up at four seasons total landscaping. apologies to four seasons. you are not a massage parlor. you're a landscaping co

she has sydney powell, who jenna ellis might have been a junior partner there -- by sydney powell was a leader of the gang. that absolutely knew that the courts had turned down all of their appeals. and they were only left to do what they were doing in georgia trying to get brad raffensperger to do what they wanted. remember, at the end of that call, trump says, fellas, come on, give me a break to gabriel sterling and brad raffensperger. explains why he also thinks trump should go to jail, when we come back. ♪ if there's pain when you try to poo ♪ ♪ and going sometimes feels like you ♪ ♪ pushed through a pineapple or two ♪ ♪ colace is the brand you need ♪ ♪ to soften stools, we're all agreed ♪ ♪ #2 should be easy to do ♪ trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants for comfortable relief. the power goes out and we still have wifi trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellu

she has sydney powell, who jenna ellis might have been a junior partner there -- by sydney powell was a leader of the gang. that absolutely knew that the courts had turned down all of their appeals. and they were only left to do what they were doing in georgia trying to get brad raffensperger to do what they wanted. remember, at the end of that call, trump says, fellas, come on, give me a break to gabriel sterling and brad raffensperger. sterling, by the way, i think at one point, said he was a trump voter. but he pursued. he stuck to his guns the whole way through under enormous pressure. doesn't it seem so open and shut to you, this case in georgia? where, if this were law and order or suits you have got tapes. so it practically got the dead body. you've got rudy giuliani convicted going after ruby freeman, which, by the way, trump in that phone call brought up ruby freeman and called her and her daughter hustlers of 18,000 votes and stuffing them in suitcases. just bizarre theories of why he deserved these votes that had not been cast for him. i'm waiting for -- trump does not want

tagged for $140 million, you have four people down in fulton county including kenneth chesebro, jenna ellisell, people that were intimately involved in the scheme to overturn the lawful results of the 2020 election. you yourself have been a part of litigation, right, to be able to seek accountability for what happened on january 6th? your thoughts on whether you think finally, finally accountability is starting to happen? >> accountability is coming. we've seen this tapestry of accountability in the civil and criminal realm and that tapestry, in these cases against donald trump, i think will be part of a security blanket, so to speak, that protects our rule of law and our democracy. the heroes continue to be in this story, people like the election workers who volunteered to work in our elections, who were smeared by rudy giuliani and trump supporters, and then used our rule of law and justice system to hold rudy giuliani accountable. they are the heroes and they will be the heroes all the way until next november, where we'll need them to stand up and believe in democracy and inspire voters

>> peter, it sure seems like giuliani is following a playbook from people like donald trump and jenna ellisd sidney powell, they keep telling lies publicly. but then when it comes to getting on the stand under oath and being questioned, that is not something they want to do, but do you get any sense within trump world that that's changing the minds of people who remain proponents of the big lie? >> well, like you say, i mean, when you go in front of a camera on the courthouse steps and may not tell the truth to the news media, there's no penalty, at least legal penalty. if you say it under oath, obviously there is, and so you know, take what you will of that, but obviously people are recognizing there is more of a bonus to tell the truth in court than the media, i don't know that it's had any effect. look, we have seen time and time again that supporters of donald trump and the people around him have managed to see things through the lens that donald trump has provided to them, the lens being -- this is all politicized. this is all about getting him because he is a great president or what h

and, of course, it is very different from jenna ellis who read her letter while she was behind the defense table in front of judge mcafee back in october and was crying and saying how she regretted what she did, she regrets becoming a part of the trump campaign in the aftermath of the election. >> and in comparison to sidney powell, scott hall's says i did not mean to violate any law, i now realize i did and accept responsibility for my actions. katie, precedent here, do they usually put parameters on things like this, wriing letters? >> no, they don't. i found these letters to be wholly underwhelming and insufficient, but the most important part of the plea deal for these defendants, they're testifying truthfully when the cases go to trial and the proffers, the recorded proffers they gave, very detailed and very incriminating, that was more important than the i'll call them apology letters in quotes because i don't think they were apologies. >> thank you. appreciate it. >>> up next, the biden administration urging israel to scale back its massive ground campaign in gaza. but what happens

and trump lawyer jenna ellis describes what they are envisioning for january 6th.rite it, in the scenario ellis described when pence was presiding, he could either refuse to open or refuse to count the electoral votes. they don't necessarily know you are on this call. you are listening in. it's two days before january six. was that the moment when it really became clear to you in detail what they were gonna try to do? >> yes. you know, i had heard, obviously there had been talk about we're gonna have these -- i think stephen mueller has been talking about that. but it wasn't clear to me what the contours of this particular part of the plan were until i got to that phone call. and listening to them describe how these fake electors were going to be used. and the fact that they anticipated that vice president pence was gonna use them to refuse to count the legitimate electors, certainly a moment of intense concern. and as i got off that call, i ran into the capitol into the office of the parliamentarian of the house to say, wait a minute, this is what i am hearing is

, several of whom have already pleaded guilty and apologized for lying about the election, like jenna ellisey powell trump's kookiest lawyer who looked in her mug shot like she was in a staring contest with the ghost of rudy giuliani in fact, even rudy, arguably trump's closest ally when it comes to election lies, admitted we got lots of theories. we just don't have the evidence. [ light laughter ] and this is a guy recently filmed the thanksgiving episode of his internet show with a fake fireplace behind him that made it look like flames are coming out of his head. [ laughter ] although i think that's what actually happens to rudy's head when you ask him to do lawyer stuff. "oh, my brain is overheating quick. grab me one of the spare brains by the hearth. "those aren't brains, rudy, they're gourds." "they'll have to do. but of course, nothing can stop trump from claiming he won, because he's deeply delusional over the weekend, he put a new twist on his election lie that somehow made it even more deranged although, again, listen closely to this completely incoherent rant and see if you can

jenna ellis who was a trump lawyer who was on this program just the way you are right now, that mightmparison. i don't know what else y'all might have in common. we tried to reason with her. she got in trouble for her lies and actions then pled to a crime. so let's show that and get your view of how she went from that polluted zone to saying oh, my god, i woke up. >> if i knew then what i know now, i would have declined to represent donald trump in these post election challenges. i look back on this whole experience with deep remorse. >> what do you see there in someone who was in presidential campaign life on the other side from you? >> well, again, i think she was operating in this made up world. almost her own political west world. and then when the facts were presented to her and she realized the problems she could get into, she basically repented. i think you mentioned yes, in politics, it used to be oh, you'd accuse your opponent of wanting to raise taxes by 200 billion and maybe it's 220 billion. still not okay. but this is different. i don't know if they're lies, this is crimi

today they had testimony that they played from jenna ellis when she took the fifth several times. pair did on "snl" because of the ridiculous claim he was making about the election. but there were real world consequences for this and miss moss talked about how this did take over her life. she talked about shutting down her facebook messaging. even after she moved because of the threat she was receiving, they found her new address and sent her clippings of her own face in them. so these vague message as all sort of with this layer of racism all around them. she talked about how she thinks rudy compared them to bank robbers and drug dealers becauses when he looks at black people, he thinks of drug dealers and bank robbers. so she really made a compelling case for the jury here. this case probably could end up with rudy testifying maybe tomorrow or thursday and that will be ab interesting event because he's had had trouble holding his tongue even today. he may have brought up new theories how the connections that the lawyers were representing shea moss have and what they mean and bri

the republican national committee, who begins in november warning people that rudy giuliani and jenna ellis' claims of fraud in the election are a joke, and he warns that those will likely mislead millions of americans and that this is a very serious and dangerous kind of plot. >> there's so much filing. it's something i could spend two hours on. this feels like part of poving his intent is proving his nolk of the effect his words had on his sporters. we went and found my colleague's reporting from right outside and impactly what was being called on transpired. watch this. >> reporter: increasing mob-like scene of self-proclaimed poll watchers, who say they want the to get access to the building. so many of them have rushed into the building here that i'm actually talking to official democratic poll watchers from the democratic party, who have been shut outside of the balloting room, which they are supposed to have access to. it's got ton a point where we have a police presence here that is blocking access to the building because not only the have they swarmed the room, but they are now ove

as i listened, and it was jason miller and jenna ellis. what they were planning to do with the fake electors and making these claims that there were these, they call them alternate electors. they were fake electors that vice president pence was going to use to justify stopping the count, either throwing out votes that were legitimate ones, or refusing to count, and it was chilling. as soon as i listened, that's one is the call was done and they walk through the plans, and they walk the names of members of the house who are on board with these plans, including jim jordan and a least fonac, as soon as the call ended, iran until the capitol for the house parliamentarian who is the nonpartisan who is the non part-able expert for rules on the house to say to win, wait, what do we do it for the joint session and the vice president refuses to do his duty and rejects legitimate votes? and after that meeting where it was very informative meeting because it was clear that there was not much that we could do, he said to me, you have to work with the

as i listened in, it was jason miller and jenna ellis, talking -- it was the first time i had heard in these claims that there were these -- they called them alternate lectors, they were fake electors that vice president pence was going to use to justify stopping the count, either throwing out votes that were legitimate ones or refusing to count. and it was chilling. as soon as i listened to this call, and they walked through these are the plans, they walked through names of members of the house who were on board, including jim jordan and elise stefanik. as soon as the call ended, i ran to the office of the house parliamentarian, who is the nonpartisan professional expert on the rules of the house to say to him, you know, wait, what do we do if we're in a joint session and the vice president refuses to do his duty and rejects legitimate votes? after that meeting, where it was very informative meeting, because it was clear that there was not much we could do, he said you have to work with the senate on this. so i called mitch mcconnell to say, what is our game plan here if they do this,

as i listened in, it was jason miller and jenna ellis.ch clear terms what they were planning to do with the fake electors, and making these claims there were these, they called them alternate electors, fake electors, that vice president pence was going to use to justify stopping the count. either, you know, throwing out votes that were legitimate ones or refusing to count. it was chilling. as soon as i listened to -- as soon as the call was tone and they'd walked through, you know, these are the plans, walked through names of members of the house who were on board with these plans, including jim jordan and elise stefanik, as soon as the call ended, i ran inside the capitol to the office of the house parliamentarian, who is the non-partisan professional expert on the rules of the house, to say to him, you know, "wait, what do we do if we're in a joint session and the vice president refuses to do his duty and rejects legitimate votes?" after that meeting, where it was very informative because it was clear there was not much we could do, he