jennifer granholm, what's your case? >> i mean, really, steve, bless your heart for trying to get trump out of this soup, but he knew that he was paying off women. that's the bottom line. and it's a good thing that we've got evidence other than michael cohen's testimony. there's the tape. and who knows what other evidence that the mueller investigation has that's documentary evidence or testimonial evidence from other people. what is allen weisselberg saying? we don't have any idea what's behind the scenes. but as to this notion that trump did not know, it's totally by the tape. >> and even if he knew doesn't matter he's not a crime. and i paid all the money that was paid by michael cohen so nobody contributed anything for me. there's still the recording requirement in the statute, steve. so there would still be a legal aspect -- >> that's not true. that's not true. if -- and again, we have to be careful here. election law is clear. if an expenditure would have been made, irrespective of the campaign, that's the phrase t

jennifer granholm and mike shields. good to see you both here. mike shields, let's start with you.fied information in a long time. how does this punishment wind up promoting the president's interests? >> well, look, i think that brennan has done a huge disservice to the men and women in our intelligence community. i have tremendous respect for the thousands of men and women who work every day to keep us safe. i'm glad to hear democrats finally admitting that these people matter. they're now coming to their defense and talking about the intelligence community. they're right. it's important. and so -- >> hold on a second, mike. did you just say now the democrats are coming to -- >> certainly. they were called warmongers during the iraq war when president bush was in office, but now they're the lionized intelligence community we have to protect. i love that. i think that's great. we're bipartisan. we love the intelligence community. that's awesome. people like brennan -- >> wait. hold on. so you're criticizing the democrats for hypocrisy of going after the intelligence community and n

let me get you in here, jennifer granholm.t the president is tweeting about and whether or not it matters, matters to you why? >> well, because we have a president who is constantly gaslighting the american public. he says that something is when it is absolutely not. i just -- it's so -- it's beyond words how horrible this president has been to the truth. we all know that. so when he says, oh, there's no collusion, and he tries to get his followers to believe that the word "collusion" is not going to appear in an indictment when manafort issues one against somebody, well -- >> mueller. >> excuse me. when mueller. you're right. when mueller does. so maybe the word doesn't admit, but you had as professor cuomo up at the whiteboard a list of actual laws that could be broken if there's a conspiracy. >> right. >> this is just engaged in semantic play. and when the president tries to pull the wool over america's eyes in so many ways, it just proves again and again that honestly, i can hardly wait till november comes so that we can g

and where a woman has not been elected since jennifer granholm of michigan, a democrat, left office in. with me now is one of those channelers, gretchen whitmore. she's hoping to be michigan's democratic nominee in the state's gubernatorial race. gretchen, thanks very much for being here. i want to start about asking you about the late-breaking dynamics in this race. your progressive challenger releasing a medicare-for-all single-payer health care plan that seems to have at the very least caught the interest of bernie sanders, who's endorsed him, and gotten a lot of attention in the waning weeks. what's your health care plan and why do you disagree with your opponent? >> listen, i'm not running or disagreeing with anyone. i'm running on a real plan and a real record to get things done for people in michigan. michiganders aren't interested in labels or an outsider coming in. we want a governor who can solve problems. and as the senate zmdemocratic leader, i had a proud progressive leader. that's why everyone from the uaw to planned parenthood have endorsed me. >> so do you support medic