l of that old-fashioned manufacturing. but in the process what they're getting is they're getting all of this intellectual talent -- >> right. >> -- and we risk losing the next phase which is, as jennifer's describing, a much more high-level sort of situation, a flexible workplace where you or i or jennifer may be engineer, we may be worker, we may be cfo, and we're all talking about the process and able to understand how do we make this thing work. the scary thing is that what's happening educationally as, you know, you've all read this how many ph.d.s and engineering trees are coming out of cal like patricia's did, but they're coming out of universities like india and china, that we're being whipped. if we want to look back in 30 or 40 years, it's not going to be taxes, it's not going to be whether we had a 9/9/9 plan like herman cain or 38%, it's going to be did we invest in our work force and children, did we develop human capital? because the years in front of us are about this, they're not about bending steel -- >> and, just to jump on that, once you lose the manufacturing capacity, the engineers will follow. you cannot separate the two. >> right. >> and people don't realize, they