jennifer thompson, michiel oakes'ex-wife.kes told her he'd been offered a job to take out an ex-husband, that he'd been asked by a father of someone named linda. that jennifer was convinced that meant this was a killing for hire. but because that alleged conversation took place when jennifer and michiel oakes were married, that made it privileged. couldn't be used in court. the prosecution would have to make do with just part of jennifer's story. the judge would not allow her face to be filmed in court as she told the jury about her visit from michiel just days before mark stover disappeared, when he talked about a job he was supposed to do. and then there was her meeting with him on the 28th of october not long after that trespassing incident when the police officer pulled him over. jennifer said he looked a little frumpy, and what was that on his jeans? >> there was a rusty reddish stain on his right knee. to me it looked like blood. i just said, "it looks like you have a dirty knee there." and he took his finger and he tou

and joining me now is derek thompson, staff writer for the atlantic and dr. jennifer-so-, elite epidemiologist johns hopkins coronavirus resource center. derek, let me start with you. i like the piece and i learned a lot from it. what did you learn by talking to people who are vaccine resistant? >> vaccine resistance is so complicated, you know? you're not talking to a handful of people and they're all repeating the same katika zooms. they're all different nuances that you get based on different people. they come to this and very different ways but i think the big idea here is the summary that you just put up. it's this two part summary. number one, i trust my own immune system more than i trust big pharma. and number two, that they essentially trust that they're going to be able to get through this without having to take on any pharmaceutical intervention. i think it's really important to look at the risk assessment to make here because i have taken this virus unfortunately believably seriously and so the way i want to admit in this piece i am of course rooting for t