i would like to start with jens stoltenberg. jens stoltenberg the former prime minister of norway has been here several times but it's the first time he is here. happy to have you with us and one thing we discussed in previous sessions which i think is very relevant for this one is what we can call the blurring lines between war and peace come the complexity of understanding for this war and what his piece today. i know you have been thinking about that is it's very relevant for your job now. what is actually happening and what is this hybrid war that we are seeing more and more on the agenda? >> in fact it's what you said before we had an idea that this was either peace or war. more and more countries are living in a state which is somewhere in between. that is about blurred lines between war and peace. we see when we have frozen conflicts in many places in the world and we say when we have hybrid warfare in ukraine with a mixture of military and nonmilitary means of aggression, with overt and covert actions. of course also a p

would like to start with jens stoltenberg. former prime minister of norway has been here several times but it's the first time he's here as the secretary general of nato. happy to have you with us. and one thing that we discussed in previous sessions, which i think is very relevant for this one, is what we can call the blurring lines between war and peace. the complexity of actually understanding what is war and what is peace today. i know you've been thinking about that. what is actually happening and what is this word, hybrid war, that we're seeing more and more on the agenda? mr. stoltenberg: i think what's actually happening is what you said. before we had some kind of idea that it was either peace or war. but now more and more countries are living in a state which is in some way in between. that is about this blurring line between war and peace. we see -- when we have frozen conflicts, many of the places in the world, we see it when we have hybrid warfare, as we have seen, for instance in ukraine. with a mixture of milita