that is making sure that other animals like primates don't suffer so jeremy binns in one of the great utilitarian philosophers started out by saying it's not about can they think and talk but can they suffer and we begin with the suffering of other people do they have the right to not suffer at the hands of somebody else. so not causing somebody else to suffer is a moral decision. i also make the argument by the way for free will. most scientists believe in this urban. you could have done otherwise. you could have harbored somebody but chose not to and that choice is where the moral decision comes from. >> since the end i demand of the united states and the idea of a constitution was a bill of rights br saying everybody should be treated equally under the law. that is a couple of centuries old. the rights were indicted in late 18th century and they've taken the percentage. >> how did the nytimes and began? >> with the idea we could use reasons and logic and science to answer questions about the world. it really began in the scientific revolution which was the bigger point was the univ