you are here with jerry bernstein. caller: how were you today? i guess i am a senior citizen, about 66 years old now. and i look back at my years, and we had public health to begin with, then we had medicare, and we also have a va program. if you look at public health, they have gone bust. if you look at the va, they put in a billion dollar computer system which was supposed to help of the veterans. well, since they put that in, it cost the veterans a ton of money because now they charge you for different types of health care and stuff. guest: can i jump in here? ernest, we have a factual disagreement. i think the facts show that both the cases you raised are quite the opposite as you have betrayed them, with respect. health care in the va has constantly been cited as one of the most efficient, effective forms of health care provision in the nation, if not, the world. this is a model program. secondly, public health care -- if you are talking about medicare, if you compare overhead and you compare efficiency and compare how much of $1 of spending

jerry bernstein gave him real numbers on the deficit as opposed to that base and a 4% growth race, he really would not be sleeping at night. host: the business section of the philadelphia enquirer had this headline, universal health care could boost the economy. the coverage to employers economists argue, hinders creation of enterprise. can you see any argument that this would boost the economy? guest: 1 of the things they say, christine roemer, she said it would increase the labour force and productivity if everybody had health care. it is hard to imagine that we will get a lot more out of it. let's talk about the 45 million. if you look at the 45 million and you break it down, there are a lot of wealthy people in there. they just used to pay. there is a lot of young people opt out of the system. it doesn't affect how they participate in the economy. there are a lot of undocumented immigrants. that is an important public policy question. are we giving them health insurance rds even though they are on document? -- undocumented. i think it will come down on the side of the fact we have