our good friend jerry ford, of course, succeeded upon the resignation of president, even our current president, of course, joe biden spent eight years as vice president before winning in 2020. and so that means one out of every three of our vice presidents has become one. every three of our presidents was vice president for a supreme important steppingstone. there. and i think they all see themselves that way. of course, they all think they're going to be now the 16th one to do so. i remember al gore used to have this joke. he would he would get up there. he would say, you know, i like the vice presidential seal. he says, if you cover your left, i say it becomes even better. but it's also true that aside from being next in line to the presidency, the office of the vice presidency has evolved a lot in the modern times. it's evolved a lot in the last few decades into a much more substantive and significant role. our favorite, thomas marshall, we just talked about it, call it call himself the spare tire of the white house. but in fact, as these date has become more of a partner riding s

before that, the last one to do it was jerry ford back in 1,976. those are the only two guys.hose are the only two guys. the only two incumbents who won that first debate, usually the challenger wins six out of eight times the challenger has one that first debate, including joe biden four years ago. so the fact is, if you're an incumbent and you're trailing going into that first debate, history is not necessarily your friend because you normally that incumbent loses that first debate as well and only could fall further behind. but of course it's 2024 anything that happened, my friend, of course, of course, we've women saying that since well, for years now, anything can happen. look, i want to ask about this. you because we're in the game before the game, so to speak, some mine games from rhetoric back and forth. we've seen donald trump's campaign for months, tried to paint biden is someone who won't be up to this task, not mentally fit for this. and now he seems to be shifting his tune a little bit. >> it could biden actually benefit from low expectations here yeah, this to me

business community for the gop candidate for william howard taft to calvin coolidge, eisenhower, jerry fordfrom the business community publicly. the top fortune 100 firms that stood behind the gop candidate. and now we can see since 2016, there were zero. only two in 2020 and now again zero. that's astounding. some of the names we see floated out there is trumpaganda. that's a big change. they don't like him stylistically or substantively. ceos are flocking back. they never flocked to anymore in the first place. they didn't vote for him, as you can see, any of those times, and didn't support him. >> if that's true and obviously statistically, you're right about the top 100, but why is trump raising so much money? a $50 million donation from business man timothy melon. there are a lot of billionaires out there who are committing huge amounts of money to donald trump and why that differentiate between ceos and other rich people? >> i don't know timothy melon at all. there are good and rotten melons. i don't know why this melon did what he did. he is not his father, grandfather or great grandf

course, if you remember for that election, you may remember that his republican opponent, which jerry fordo was from the state of michigan, michigan. very good. so the fact is, if you're a democrat, you want to win the white house, you almost certainly have to carry michigan and the electoral maps. i'm looking at this time around suggests the exact same thing for joe biden. so which group is button actually doing well with in michigan? >> yeah miguel was reporting from oakland county. one thing that oakland county has a lot of his college graduates. so if you look right now in the polling and you look nationwide, you look in michigan, you see that joe biden is trailing what he's doing in 2020 except among white voters with a college degree where he's either holding up, are doing better. that is the exact same thing that's going on in michigan right now. he's actually he doing better among white voters with a college degree of which there are many an oakland county, if he's going to win the state of michigan, he's going to have to do very very, very well with them, given how poorly he is do

and the question for joe biden is whether this will be the samh as it was with jerry ford where it reenforces that hurt plenty in an election that ended up being very close or whether he can pivot now. he's not going to be able to pivot with a g second debate ve soon. s the question is over the next three or four days if he can get out not at fund-raising events but doing in-depth interviews shows this was a one-off that can reassure people, including that democratic base and the funders. that's where the analogies come in with the past. but, you know, the performance, he was not helped by the moderators of the debate.th but it was his task to carry forward, and he didn't. >> yeah, and the difference in some of those instances that normth rightly brings up, take barack obama in 2012 with mitt romney, 20that, by most analysi was a case of perhaps overconfidence or a lack of preparation from which her recovered. barack obama was 51 years old that night. president biden, 81 last night during that debate, and a lot of people were typing in, yes, for the substance and all the lies we've cataloged

ford, in which he denied the obvious that was soviet domination over eastern europe. >> look at what happened. carter's lead went up to five points. what's so important? here was that jerry 4, the incumbent president at the time, had been chipping away at carter's lead after the first debate, this being the second debate he seemed to have some real momentum and then that debate moment combined with the rest of that second debate, halted that momentum. carter jumped out to a five-point lead and he was able to hold on. and when the general election come november we also have a now iconic moment from the reagan carter debate. let's look at that who stand there in the polling place and making a decision? >> i think when you make that decision, it might be well, if you would ask yourself are you better off than you were four years ago? >> i mean, that probably is one of the most iconic debate moments in history. you know, i love watching these all debates. i'm looking forward to tonight. and this one really seal the deal for ronald reagan in 1980. so this is carter versus reagan, carter going for reelection pre-debate, reagan had a lead, but it was just two points and the ave