jerry kunzman and tries have a people socials resolution pashtun revolution. he runs out of money. the country is completely broke. years of dictatorship have destroyed. the cocoa crop is gone. but he goes to the soviet says i want to be socials, give me money. he had to turn around to go to people and do good things and the people that came into power eventually more and more good things. he delivered more and more good things. easy leader who in hindsight looks like the poster boy coverage in the, liberal economic reform but the reality was a crack at what he could avoid it. he'll get good things when he was forced to. >> host: in the way he assumed, an example of the entire theory? right? it was a self interested to change, so he figured out how am i going to stay in power, how am i going to keep this whole operation running, not the way i did before but the best way i can do for me. >> guest: that's why almost always bad things always do, do you the best chance of staying in power. once in a while that means doing good things. >> host: you mentioned the arab spring. what did ho