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joining me now, a former governor ed rendell and jess mcintosh, thank you both for being here. >> our pleasure. >> thanks for having me. >> governor, if thom tillis was moderate, who would be an extremist? >> it's hard to figure out, rev. the interesting thing is, it's true we democrats would have been better off if some of the tea party candidates had won. if brannon had won, kay hagan would have definitely been re-elected, but you're making a very good point here, and, of course, tillis makes it himself on that tape. these so-called establishment moderates are not moderate at all. they are very extreme. they are extreme in essentially what they want to do, but their campaigns against the tea party forces them to be more extreme. there was a debate with the tea party candidate and tillis was asked if he believed that there was any factual basis to climate change. and he said no. he doesn't believe that there's climate change. he doesn't believe that we're challenged and that we've got to do something about carbon and what's happening to the world. now, i don't know if he really belie

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