host: jesse eisinger? guest: it is a good point. do not mean to be spitting out numbers, i hope i am trying to explain relevant numbers to understand what our system is. the main point of our story is that this is entirely legal. and if you are only -- and if you're only present to understand society is whether somebody violated current law or not, then you can say that there is nothing wrong here. but if you want to understand the system that we have and the choices that we have and what the results of the choices that we have are, that is what our article is attempting to lay out, which is, this is the system we have, which allows for the richest man in the world to pay zero in federal income taxes in two recent years to allow the second richest man in the world, elon musk to pay zero in federal income taxes in 2018. to allow george soros and michael bloomberg and carl -- and carl icahn to pay zero in federal income taxes. after everyone fully understands the system that we have in place, and then everybody decides that that is fi