of texas and i'm quoting you, threatens to take the party not just back to the embarrassment of jesse helmsssment posed by mccarthy. >> the comparison has been drawn obviously because you have cruz at these confirmation hearings baselessly asirting we don't know if chalk hagel took money from north korea. you have that sort of reminiscent of joe mccarthy. >> also a story about when he was at harvard alleging -- >> the professors who wanted to overthrow the government at harvard. >> you have that same streak and when i invoke jesse helms, he was an irtabt even to the republican establishment. they didn't really like having jesse helms around for all those years but the resistance from the republican establishment only made him more popular with the republican base. the particular danger of cruz though i think for the republican party is the republican party today is less ideologically and geographically diverse than it was in the days of joe mccarthy. joe mccarthy was around when dwight eisenhower, a moderate republican, was running the country. today the republican party is at a moment when

i was involved campaign against senator jesse helms when i was in college. when i cannot hear, and was not initially involved politically. -- when i came out here, i was not initially involved politically. i helped to build the lgbt community center. i started doing campaigns. i gradually got involved in democratic party politics. i got involved in the alice b. toklas democratic club. i ran for the democratic central committee in 2004. i ended up sharing the committee. it was a gradual process for me. by the time i started thinking about running for supervisor, it made sense because of my involvement in the community and in politics. >> what did you learn from campaigning for supervisor? >> i learned a lot. i knocked on about $15,000. -- i knocked about 15,000 doors. i met a huge number of people. that is the best way to learn about the neighborhood, the city, and what people want and what their concerns are. i feel i can do so much more than before and started campaigning. -- i feel like i know so much more than before i started campaigning. we're all part

maybe if we had an arms control and disarmament agency that runs and abolished because jesse helms maden nervous, maybe we can address those things. what happens -- there used to be an arms control lobby in this country that was quite effective. i don't see much of their activity anymore. >> the other question was, we have been very successful rebuilding the country. world war two, japan, germany. how come it's difficult to do nation-building in iraq in afghanistan? >> because they are not nation's a problem with afghanistan is, we are trying to do with the soviets tried to do, taking a page out of their playbook which is, you come in and try to build a centralized government. when has afghanistan ever had a centralized government? is run in a decentralized way and what i see happening already with the fact that we have taken up 302,000 in the search forces are no longer there, now they're going back even more aggressively toward decentralization. the warlords are getting active. the ethnic tribes are getting more active. iraq and some claims to being a nation state, but it was sitting

jesse helms, one of the conservatives who championed his nomination turned on him. for his impeachment. it all made koop's boss in the white house uncomfortable.

>> guest: jesse helme used to send me birthday cards. he had strom thurmond used to send them all the time. ronald reagan, deal the action i had with him within the senator's thoughts are a congress they are invited me to come in. he seemed like a very affable, personal guy. sunny personality and all the rest, but the least amusing thing for me as he told the press when he fired me in the press asked him why. a reporter came back and told me she stares at my pleasure and she's not getting any pleasure in the press got a big laugh out of that one. >> host: what was your reaction? >> guest: that was almost as bad as the guy in the bush administration and the justice department supposedly said he liked his coffee like mary frances berry, black and bitter. but reagan was better. i served at his pleasure, not getting him very much pleasure. the court was brought into evidence when i sued right and in the court says, that among other things, the president doesn't fire people in an independent agency who are watchdogging had because they're not

there's a lot of if we have the control that clinton abolished because jesse helms made them nervous and they can address those things. the arms control lobby in the country was quite effective we don't see much of their activity anymore. >> they've been very successful after world war ii the difficulty in iraq and afghanistan. >> the party in afghanistan is the trying to do with the soviets try to do where they take a page out of the playbook which is you come in and try to bill the government. when did they ever have a centralized government? it is run in a decentralized way and what i see happening already in the fact that we've taken off 33,000 on the search forces are no longer there, now they are going back even more aggressively towards the centralization and the warlords are active, the tribes are getting more active, kabul doesn't count for much to begin with but it will count for much less. iraq had some claims to being a nation state but it was sitting on the triad of the kurdish, sunni shia but they sat on with force and once you remove that force, we have no plan for wha

it was jesse helm that the cloture vote was 85-4.irk kempthorn and bill nelson running -- >> i love when people name dirk kempthorn. >> this is -- i think the real dangerous precedent that's being set here, though, is let's say that this is partly lindsey graham posturing for 2014 in south carolina so he will eventually drop his objection and john mccain will go along. >> the mccain piece is interesting to me, though. a lot of people are saying watch where mccain goes. he has gone back and forth on this. an elder statesman of the senate who has respect for preer and the upper chamber. >> but he has such a strong personal relationship with lindsay graham, and lindsay graham is so personally invested in his 2014 re-election and being seen as the guy who is fighting the obama administration on this, so i kind of feel like -- it's just a guess, but my thought is that graham will eventually drop it. that will allow mccain to drop it. that will allow them to follow suit. then you have a new precedent. let's say you get to the floor with th

it was against, for instance, the civil rights act of 1964, when you got somebody like jesse helms, who democrat, a racist democrat, was so upset with the idea of racial inclusion, that he left the democratic party and became a republic tan. and that has been happening. so southern democrats have and 8,000 fundamentalist baptist churches and so on have taken over the republican party and fundamentally changed it. >> one of the things that's interesting. gender is a key element to that backlash. >> well, it's the whole game. because you have to control -- we don't talk about it. but controlling reproduction is even more important than controlling production. and you can't control reproduction unless you control women. so you get the same groups being against contraception, against abortion, which prevents abortion, which means no sense. you get especially racist groups being against reproductive rights because they can see that the country is becoming a no longer majority-like country and they're in a panic about this. these -- women are not -- women are part of everything. and fundament

>> guest: jesse helme used to send me birthday cards. he had strom thurmond used to send them all the time. ronald reagan, deal the action i had with him within the senator's thoughts are a congress they are invited me to come in. he seemed like a very affable, personal guy. sunny personality and all the rest, but the least amusing thing for me as he told the press when he fired me in the press asked him why. a reporter came back and told me she stares at my pleasure and she's not getting any pleasure in the press got a big laugh out of that one. >> host: what was your reaction? >> guest: that was almost as bad as the guy in the bush administration and the justice department supposedly said he liked his coffee like mary frances berry, black and bitter. but reagan was better. i served at his pleasure, not getting him very much pleasure. the court was brought into evidence when i sued right and in the court says, that among other things, the president doesn't fire people in an independent agency who are watchdogging had because they're not