this seems to have been an opportunity for mitchell and jessen.there were resistance trainers who have been part of a program to basically torture our own soldiers to try to teach them to resist. the two of them got the manual and wrote about it, and they claimed that they had special expertise because of their resistance training to break the resistance of al qaeda members. >> and talk about how and theant they were response by the american psychological association am a to what they were doing. it wasn't just the two of them. they started the program. they got tens of millions of dollars for it. they created this torture program and justified it. they did the assessment of the prisoners, to the torture itself, they did the evaluation of how worth -- how will the torture word. her self-promotion and level of --erest is her readiness harvard this. it started a virus of overseeing and directing enhanced interrogations. and what started very early on is the professional -- the american psychological association decided it was going to -- going to do

we know about the psychologist bruce jessen and james mitchell, and their role in the torture. men --k eons these two talk beyond these two men as the attempt for them to be isolated, the role of the largest association of psychologists in the world, but then beyond that. psychiatrists, doctors, nurses. >> i think there's often been this narrative that mitchell and jessen were the lone gunmen of torture, that they were doing this out of their garage. they were operating inside the superstructure of medicalized torture. and what that means is that it wasn't just them alone. it was the office of medical services at cia, part of the office of technical service that allegedly employed mitchell and jessen, and entered alludes just looking -- and that includes just looking at the senate report, physicians assistants, doctors, and may include other professionals within oms. everything from "patient care" to actual monitoring calibration and design of the tactics with mitchell and jessen. >> explained. it traditionally has been said the american psychological association, despite a lot

what mitchell and jessen told the c.i.a. is we can reverse engineer these tactics for you and we'll extract terrific confessions. >> they're claiming to the c.i.a. we can turn this around. did they have any thread of evidence that their theory would work? >> they really didn't. and that is what shocked some of their colleagues from the sear program because everybody knew that they didn't have any data. they didn't have any reports. they didn't have any papers showing that this actually worked to produce this effect. the question is they were in the right place at the right time, and clearly they had a business angle in mind because they set up a corporation. c.i.a. they were paid ultimately over $80 million. >> that's senator dianne feinstein who spoke about the financial incentive these two had both the claim that their theory would work, and then the claim that it was working. here she is speaking. >> the c.i.a. relied on these two contractors to evaluate the interrogation program they had devised, and in which they had ob

but as far as whether or not mitchell and jessen were qualified, this notion of them being completely it came to islam, when it came to the middle east, that's certainly relevant. >> let's hear from the man himself once again about getting actionable intelligence. >> you're saying the design and purpose of the enhanced program wasn't necessarily to get actionable intelligence? >> it was to facilitate getting actionable intelligence by making a bad cop that was bad enough that the person would engage with the good cop. i would be stunned if they found any kind of evidence to suggest that eits, as they were being applied yielded actionable intelligence. i'm not going to acknowledge if it was me or wasn't me, but if you read rodriguez's book "hard measures" he says that the contractor they sent, job was to look at the resistance strategies that the detainee was employing and make suggestions to the fbi and cia team. >> zach meachem, it's kind of wonderful that the highest paid shrink in the history of the world has no idea how crazy he sounds. >> even on his own term, the argument makes

this program, this seed really started in washington, it's very important to see how mitchell and jesseno in washington told them they were kwaul qualified to run this program. i don't think that question is really examined in the senate committee report. >> the more he talks, the less qualified he sounds. thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> thank for having me. >> coming up, new rules for nfl players in domestic abuse cases. they challenge us. they take us to worlds full of heroes and titans. for respawn, building the best interactive entertainment begins with the cloud. this is "titanfall," the first multi-player game built and run on microsoft azure. empowering gamers around the world to interact in ways they never thought possible. this cloud turns data into excitement. this is the microsoft cloud. [coughing] dave, i'm sorry to interrupt... i gotta take a sick day tomorrow. dads don't take sick days, dads take nyquil. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, fever, best sleep with a cold, medicine. [coughing] hey amanda, sorry to bother you, but

even jessen and mitchell. they turned 24e78s into a company and collected $81 million in taxpayer money for their services in designing the torture program. plus they got a guarantee of legal immunity if they ever needed it. this is the only reckoning we're ever going to get. how can that be? my doctor told me about stelara®. it helps keep my skin clearer. with only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses... ... stelara® helps me be in season. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara®... ...your doctor should test for tuberculosis. stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection, have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems- these may be signs o

the report does detail that the psychologists -- whose names are james mitchell and bruce jessen -- receivedan $81 million contract from the cia. so far, no one involved in the cia interrogation program has been charged with a crime, with one exception, the whistleblower john kiriakou. in 2007, he became the first person with direct knowledge of the cia interrogation program to publicly reveal its existence. he is currently serving a 30 month sentence. for more on the senate torture report, we are joined by reed brody, counsel and spokesperson for human rights watch. he's written several reports for human rights watch on prisoner mistreatment in the war on terror, including a 2011 report which called for a criminal investigation of senior bush administration officials. reed, since i'm speaking to you from limit, peru and there is a satellite delay, if you could just lay out the most critical points that have come out in this, again, just the summary, not the actual thousands of pages that are still classified, but the remarkable revelations in the summary that has been released by the senate

even jessen and mitchell. they turned 24e78s into a company and collected $81 million in taxpayer money for their services in designing the torture program. plus nthey got a guarantee of legal immunity if they ever needed it. this is the only reckoning we're ever going to get. how can that be? rchases for my business. and i get a lot in return with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards, even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can. i was thinking about htaking this speed test from comcast business. oh yeah? if they can't give us faster internet or save us money, they'll give us 150 bucks. sounds like a win win. guys! faster internet? i have never been on the internet and i am doing pretty we

even jessen and mitchell. they turned themselves into a company and collected $81 million in taxpayer money for their services in designing the torture program. plus they got a guarantee of legal immunity if they ever needed it. this is the only reckoning we're ever going to get. how can that be? it's more than the driver. it's more than the car. for lotus f1 team, the competitive edge is the cloud. powered by microsoft dynamics, azure, and office 365, the team can gain real time insights and instantly share information around the globe. when every millisecond counts, staying competitive begins with the cloud. this is the microsoft cloud. >>> in washington today, obviously there was this huge furer over the release of the torture report. when one big thing takes over washington, you've got the headlines for tomorrow's paper and all of this. on days like this, when there's one megastory, lots of other things can happen in the background and not get much noticed. today, one of those things that happened very qui

their real names are reported as james mitchell and bruce jessen, both military psychologists. in a phone interview mitchell criticizes senate staffers who prepared the report saying: in our conversation he refused to confirm he was one of the architects saying: in a rare on-camera interview with vice news he talks about the benefits of water boarding, for example on one of detainees. >> reporter: does water boarding constitution extortion. >> it's like everything in the tool bag, you can understand or over use it. the report says the chief integrator threatened to quit. but the two psychologists insisted that more information was to be had. they oversaw and conducted the interrogations using the techniques they devised. >> mitchell said he had experience in training integrators and told us: the senate report says the two psychologists started a company that took over the c.i.a. programme from 2008 to 2009 and the c.i.a. paid them $81 million. >> former vice president dick cheney objected to the methods, saying they were both legal and effective. >> torture was something we car

jessen. were reporting every single thing we saw that we thought went outside of the guidance, you know? >> and those were investigated. i know you feel the senate report was one-sided. and i want to get to more of that with you because there's a separate story about whether they talked to you, whether they condemned you got your side. i want to finish with the ksm interrogation. you said he was arrogant when you began and then he was waterboarded. what is the official number of times in your view? >> well, the official number of times is different than what's written in the report because they counted every pour. >> right. you explained that. >> every time they poured water. but they counted that as sessions. but the session is how long you lay on the board. and i actually don't know because the physicians were keeping track of that stuff. >> okay. was he less arrogant by the time you were done? and what was it that finally broke khalid sheikh mohammed? >> i don't want to -- we felt that wat

bruce jessen and james mitchell.lip of james mitchell talking to vice news about all of this. this was an exclusive report on vice news. >> does waterboarding tutorture? >> well, we know it didn't in 2001 until 2006, 2007. i think you can do it in a way that constitutes torture, in a way that constitutes training. in a way that helps a person shift their priorities so they experience less abuse later on. it's like every tool in the tool bag. you can underuse it, you can overuse it. >> i don't know where to start. >> well, first of all, what caribbean island was he on? >> every tool in the tool bag. and now we know what some of these tools were. some of them was a power drill and a gun held at the head of the bombing suspect blindfolded and hanging as the gun was waved around his head. >> and when he says you can use it in a way that's torture and a way that's not torture, read the report. they talk about the series of near drownings. and the bubbles coming up out of the mouth of zubaydah. >> and him passing out, whic

so, there's really no secret there, but one thing that mitchell and jessen brought -- jessen is the otherychologist there -- brought to this was the patina of science. they claimed the basis on a psychological theory called learned helplessness. >> learned helplessness. >> learned helplessness. >> what is that? >> learned helplessness is based on experiments with dogs. they were strapped in cages so they couldn't get out and then they were given electric shocks. and they became, eventually became helpless. they gave up trying to escape. and then you remove the straps and they still don't escape. so -- >> people from your community are saying that one of the tragedies here is that for all of the horrible things that we hear being done, that what works best psychologically to break someone down is sleep deprivation, and that they believe that is what worked with ksm, khalid shaikh mohammed, that's what made him break down, not the horrible things they were doing to him. is that true? >> that's probably true. i mean, sleep deprivation and isolation are really the essence of these techniques.