we, you know, we try to make jessica lynch who endured tremendous pain and discomfort as a prisoner, or pat tillman, a remarkably courageous young american. we try to make traditional heroes out of them. it doesn't work. if you look at the medals of honor in the current wars, i think only a couple of them have gone to people who survived. most of them have gone to people for -- not for assaulting an enemy force, but primarily for saving someone's life, you know, for jumping on a hand grenade to save others. just remarkably heroic and courageous action. it's just overwhelming. but we don't though how to handle these wars, we don't know 40 how to define the heroes of these wars. but everyone who steps out of a gate is being heroic over there, as far as i'm concerned. >> last question, sir. in past conflicts the civilian leadership has had military experience. today the civilian leadership is shrinking to almost a microscopic level of those who have served. how does that impact on the civilian decisions made for the military forces? >> yeah. it's an interesting question. you know, the c