and the adjustments that we made, if you think of jill abram son, who i know you know. >> been on the show. >> she's a newsman to her core. i think she's got the confidence of the room mostly because of the paper she makes. she's been a great reporter. she's been a good editor. and if you're looking at making what i would see as some adjustments on the cost side, i think it's really healthy to be up to the top and look around. think of how healthy the "new york times" is structured, which is it's the top of a mountain at the top of a mountain professionally. so it gathers all these people. and so -- there's this tremendous pressure and at a certain point something has got to give so you end up with a real thick layer on top here because no one ever wants to go anywhere. and so nobody ends up ever thrown overboard or urged to move on. if you're her and -- i don't know. it's kind of naughty to talk about, but it is overheard. >> it is. [laughter] and when you say gnawty i become all ears at that very moment. >> but let's say that you're running a large organization of 1200 people and yo