i thank you very much jill dougherty from georgetown university. and i have a number of my students here. you know, i have a question that in the context of what was just which is i think very deep, this seems like a primitive question, but i'll ask it anyway. three years ago, after people a lot of journalists, russian, began fleeing russia, i was in the baltics and i talked with a number of people and remember, you know their reactions and the i had was if you were of russia, i think you know where i'm going to go. can you really understand what's going on and can talk to your fellow russians and you know it was completely different viewpoints. there were some younger reporters who said, yeah, we're online, you know, we're still part of the conversation. there was an older reporter who'd been around for a very long, a journalist who said and i remember this so well, he said, you have to smell a smell of the bodies and so it's a debate now, three years later, you know, there's certain echoes of that question. so i'd be very interested in your your

. >> jill dougherty is an adjunct professor at georgetown university and former cnn moscow bureau chief. she joins me now from washington. always good to have you with us. >> thank you. >> rosemary. >> u.s. president donald trump says he has spoken with russia's president vladimir putin and says there are many more talks to come, but didn't give specifics. the kremlin will neither confirm nor deny trump's claim. why is the kremlin refusing to confirm trump's call with putin? >> well, i think, you know, if you look at the exact statements by president trump, sometimes they are not specific and he's not giving details and just surmising here. i would think that the kremlin doesn't want to, let's say, jump in with both feet and commit to something and say, yes, this happened. if president trump is going to change it. or maybe it wasn't exactly as they said. so at this point, you know, they're generally saying we're interested in talking. the americans have to make the first step, and it has to be on a mutual respected basis, et cetera.. but but they're not being as specific. certainly in t

. >> earlier, i spoke with cnn contributor jill dougherty. she's also an adjunct professor at georgetown university and former cnn moscow bureau chief. i asked her about russia's response to president trump's comments on speaking with russian president vladimir putin. take a listen. >> i would think that the kremlin doesn't want to, let's say, jump in with both feet and commit to something and say, yes, this happened. if president trump is going to change it. or maybe it wasn't exactly as they said. so at this point, you know, they're generally saying we're interested in talking. the americans have to make the first step, and it has to be on a mutual. respected basis, et cetera.. but but they're not being as specific. certainly in terms of, yes, we talked as trump is saying. >> and president trump says he is likely to meet with ukraine's president this week. earlier, president volodymyr zelenskyy said he is willing to negotiate with putin as long as the u.s. and europe supply security guarantees. what does all this signal to you? >> you know,

we're also joined by jill dougherty, a former cnn moscow bureau chief. ill, your takeaways from the vance zelenskyy meeting. >> well, what he said at the meeting, i think was predictable. um, especially talking about long term. that's good. but i think the speech before by the vice president was troubling because he talked not at all about what you do to resolve this war. it was really an attack on europe for its moral values. and i found it quite surprising because i'm not quite sure exactly what it had to do with the subject as you are, which is ending this war. um, maybe it scores some points back home. but it was it was really notable that he was, you know, he was attacking the europeans and nothing about russia, nothing about russia's repression of open discussion and freedom of expression, et cetera. >> general, something zelenskyy said i thought was interesting. he said that ukraine's army would have to double in size if the country isn't on the path to joining nato. he argues that membership in the alliance is the best security guarantee for ukrai

. >> joining me now to discuss jill dougherty, cnn contributor, former cnn moscow bureau chief. jill, good to have you. just quite a simple question. trump. very coy about when how many times he talked to putin. that is not normal for a president typically state to state conversations are not only confirmed, but also there are readouts of these calls. how unusual is it? and is there any reason why trump will not say if, when, why he's spoken with the russian leader? >> well, i think there are a couple of reasons. one is that, you know, he doesn't want to go there. he doesn't want to be specific. he may have had contact in the past. it's very unclear, but i think it's interesting to watch what the russians say. and yesterday, the press secretary for putin said, well, you know, there are a lot of contacts. i may have missed something. so i can neither confirm nor deny. and then i just read another quote from a senior official in the foreign ministry saying, well, there are contacts. and he said between the foreign policy departments of both countries and the process is underway. so

. >> joining us now is jill dougherty, a cnn contributor. previously she served as the network's moscow bureau chief. she's also an adjunct professor at georgetown university. jill, it's great to have you here. and we're getting this new news just within the last hour. president trump there saying he's spoken with president putin and that there will be more conversations to come. i just want to get your reaction to that. >> well. >> he's not giving any details, so it's a little bit hard to. >> see exactly what he's saying. >> and of course, you have to look with the kremlin. >> is saying and. >> the spokesperson. >> for putin, dmitry. >> peskov. >> said, well. >> there are a lot. >> of contacts. >> going on at various. levels and. >> maybe, i don't. >> know everything that's going on. so i cannot either confirm or deny. so, you know, this is. >> very delicate and. >> even having contact could be, you. >> know. >> political and sensitive. >> so i think, you know. >> we've got kind. of a diplomatic. >> game going on between. >> the white house

jill dougherty, i want to start with you. this was, to say the least, as alex pointed out, a very controversial speech from vice president vance. listen to how top leaders in europe are receiving that message. >> when listening. >> to that speech. >> it seems like, you. >> know, they try to pick a. >> fight. >> with us, but. >> we don't want to fight with our friends. we have other friends coming from outside. >> he spoke of. >> the annihilation of. democracy. >> and if i understood him correctly, he compared conditions in parts of europe with those in authoritarian regimes. ladies and gentlemen, that is unacceptable. >> was that pointed speech by the vice president a misstep, jill? >> well. >> it depends. >> on what. >> he was trying to do with it. i think to the europeans, obviously it was a misstep and beyond because they're quite angry about it. um, i think if, you know, if, if the vice president had given that speech in the united states, it wouldn't be a big deal because he's said that before. but the fact that he is at

joining us now, the former deputy secretary of state, wendy sherman, and cnn contributor jill dougherty, former cnn moscow bureau chief. wendy, let me start with you. what's your reaction, first of all, to president trump today falsely claiming that ukraine, ukraine started this war with russia. >> well. >> wolf, i think you. >> jeff, alex. >> said it it was outrageous. >> uh. >> it is actually. >> so far and i. think jill, who. >> knows moscow. >> and putin quite well. >> um, all. >> this administration has done so far is given carrots to russia. >> and today. the president. >> put sticks on president zelenskyy and. >> ukraine. >> when in fact, as you all. have said quite accurately, it was. vladimir putin. >> who. >> horrifically, illegally invaded a sovereign territory and set. >> off this horror show. >> as you know, wolf, on january 10th, i led a delegation from the united states to meet with the russians as a last ditch effort, even knowing from intelligence that putin had made the decision to invade because he believes ukraine belongs to russia. and so when you hear senator wicke

i want to bring in jill dougherty to talk a little bit about this. jill, you heard him. he said, i believe putin wants peace. i trust him on the subject. the war wouldn't have started if i had been president. and he went on to note repeatedly, he said, the only person who is president that putin did not basically do a land grab during their presidency was trump. he did it during bush. he did it during obama. he did it during biden. uh, trump, notably, of course, kind of russia, even as it had interfered with the u.s. election in 2016. we should note. >> right. well, i mean, trump right now is poised to give. >> vladimir putin everything. >> that he wants. uh, you know, crimea. eastern part. >> of the donbas, eastern part of ukraine, everything. >> that. >> um, that president putin wants is being offered to him even before the negotiations begin. although you could you could say that the negotiations have already begun. and they are between russia and the united states. and then ukraine. so this is a real, um, i'd say, quite surprising development and happening very fast.

joining me now to discuss this cnn contributor and former cnn moscow bureau chief, jill dougherty. thank you for being here. i want to ask, what do you see as the most important issue for the u.s. to raise during these talks with russia in saudi arabia on tuesday? >> well, ultimately, i think the most important thing overall is long term security. i mean, they eventually will probably come up with some sort of immediate, uh, ceasefire or whatever you want to call it. but there. >> nobody really believes. >> that the ceasefire is going to last until you know where you're going after the ceasefire, or at least during the ceasefire, because the question is really, would russia be able to come back after some type of period and perhaps attack ukraine again, or as some of the countries in the region believe or fear that they might actually, you know, try to invade or move into another country in the region. now, the russians say we have no intention, but still this this really is a question, you know, short term. and obviously, paula, right now there's a lot of short term going on. i me

former cnn moscow bureau chief jill dougherty, for your perspective. so with a single phone call last week, president trump effectively ended the international isolation of vladimir putin. does the russian president entered these talks stronger and more emboldened, in your view? >> i think so. i mean, or at least as strong as he was before. um, i mean, look at what he's already gotten. if you look specifically at ukraine, he has no ukraine in nato. he has territorial concessions. in other words, the land that russia has taken from ukraine, that's going to be considered russian. um, he's getting hints at ending sanctions, economic sanctions against russia. he has the exclusion, as you just noted, of the ukrainian president. and, uh, we have to can't forget the europeans. we have the burden-sharing now, the trump administration is pushing the burden for carrying out any type of, um, ceasefire or whatever this will be to the europeans. and then this is not to mention that's game one. game two is a big picture. putin definitely wants to be back on the stag

joining us now, our cnn global affairs analyst, kim dozier and former cnn moscow bureau chief jill dougherty. kim, what do you make of zelenskyy postponing his trip to saudi arabia? that seems like a significant and perhaps negative development in the overarching goal of reaching a peace deal. how do you read it? >> well, it's one way to send a message that he doesn't like how the white house has handled these opening talks with russia, that he doesn't feel like he's been looped in. and when you widen out to the european community, they all feel gut punched and slapped in the face that after years of close cooperation through the ramstein process under the biden administration, this time they didn't even get the courtesy of a heads up that, hey, president trump is going to follow through with his promise to try to make peace between ukraine and russia. with this phone call with vladimir putin that he had last week. and from there, we're going to see if we can have face to face, lower level talks. if anyone had gotten that heads up instead of the way this unfolded, with everyone hearing from

jill dougherty is here. and it's great to to have you here. that comment there at the end, he said he could have had all of ukraine if he wanted to. arguably not true, because that was putin's goal when he invaded. and he did not succeed in taking kyiv. >> precisely. >> and he still hasn't, however, right now we're involved in this. really, i think, unbelievably personal spat. um, i'm not quite sure where it's coming from, but when he when president trump said, you know, i'm sick of this, that that to me indicates something more than policy. it has to be personal because nobody would talk that way unless maybe you had some objective. but. but why? >> why you don't think it's some grand strategy that we've heard from some people that he's just trying to to set the bargaining table and make sure putin is there. you don't read into that when you hear him. >> i think it goes beyond that. i really do. i think it's personal. and you can see the i mean, if it isn't if this is strategy, it's not a very good strategy because putin is sitting over here

. >> jill dougherty, always great to have your expertise. thank you for joining us here on set. thank you all so much for joining us on a very busy. our cnn news night with abby phillip is up next. >> tonight we're donald trump's eyes bigger than america's appetite for change. polls warn the president that voters think he's doing much too much. as the courts tell trump no. plus, snafu, the president fires the chairman of the joint chiefs months after his pentagon chief. >> you've got to fire the. >> chairman of the joint. >> chiefs said to do just that. also, forget going high. >> the fact that i'm rooting for canada and i'm rooting for mexico a lot is really wild. >> democrats focus on clicks and clout and owning the conservatives and oh, brother. really? george clooney gives an interview that has democrats ears burning after reading as the a-lister directs the media to give themselves a close up. live at the table, jamal hill, chuck rocha, malik abdul, katie frost and joanna coles. americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do. >> this is