it's not like the days of jim agarty. in the old days -- it's a rough situation. it's been that since ron ziglar was in the nixon white house. it's tough on these guys. some of the best -- jody powell is one of the best. he's no longer with us. it's a very tough job. i admire the guys that can go out there and take it. i was offered a position like that and i lasted about 24 hours. >> do you know a press secretary who did a biography of his -- >> ron nelson. did he write a book on ford? >> he probably did. but who could say anything negative about jerry ford? even though he was not elected president. i think he had the widespread -- >> i think larry speaks wrote a book. >> and to say something about jay, i can't remember a single gas that he made and that is really something. when he's up on that tight rope every day in front of television cameras. he kept his cool most of the time. >> he went from here at the request of the vice president. >> 4 years for biden. >> 4 years for biden. that was a great -- >> preparation. >> he had the right temperament. he had a won