let's talk now with former atf agent, jim cavanaugh, who joins me on the phone. jim, let's talk about what law enforcement is most likely doing right now at the scene. >> well, alex, if they've got the patrons out, and they've got it locked down, they're trying to, you know, locate the shooter. so they can deal with him. it could be -- sometimes these things turn into horrible murder-suicide event. so oh it could be kind of static right now. certainly law enforcement, if they have the shoppers out, they might have some shop keepers barricaded inside stores. and what they're trying to do is get down there and isolate, you know, the gunman, so they can control it. >> yeah. jim, this is happening all too often. and without having to put security in place everywhere we go, publicly, which is absolutely impossible to do, what are the alternatives? how do we avoid this from happening? >> yeah, i think we've just -- the country has just not taken this on yet. just a lot of talk we do in the governments. but we don't do any action. and i think really the leaders, city, co

jim cavanaugh, thank you.und as we get them. expecting the press conference at the top of the hour. >>> want to bring you information on another story, really a sad story that a lot of people in this country had been watching with anticipation. we've been following here a pregnant texas woman pronounced brain-dead now ordered to be taken off life support. a judge made the decision yesterday. according to court affidavits 33-year-old marlice munoz met the criteria back in november after collapsing in her home. that led between a bitter fight between her husband and john peter smith hospital where she's being kept. eric munoz wanted her off life support. the hospital refused saying doing so would kill the fetus. the hospital has until 6:00 p.m. eastern on monday to disconnect his wife from a ventilator and other machines. her family's attorney reacted to that ruling. >> this is the decision we sought. there's nothing happy about today. this was a sad situation all the way around. we are relieved that eric munoz

what about this nice low low rumble joining me out in bitly and jim cavanaugh let's get back to it a study by researchers at the u.c. san francisco has revealed that people have access to guns have an increased risk of both suicide and homicide i mean the in fact people with access to guns are two times more likely to commit suicide or be killed that's one hundred percent more likely every year thirty one thousand deaths between suicides and homicides by guns fifty one point eight percent of suicides are gun related sixty six point five percent of homicides in the united states when australia after this in the one thousand nine hundred sixty water in tasmania and australia said ok that's it we're horrified by this they actually showed the pictures of the victims on national television and john howard george w. bush's good buddy the conservative prime minister the very it to the right of the republican party prime ministers and anough. the states as they decrease the number of guns in the states tasmania was the first they did the biggest gun buyback and you want all across the countr

. >> as the shootout rages, atf agent jim cavanaugh is already on the phone with the davidians trying to gain a cease-fire. >> we were taking an awful beating. so many men were hurt and wounded and laying down there. when i called the compound, it was steven snyder. >> steven snyder was koresh's top lieutenant. >> he started screaming through the phone that we had no right to be there, to get off the property immediately. i tried to stay calm. i said, steve, we have to talk. we have to work this out. you and i have to work this out. people are dying. people are hurt. we need to stop the shooting. >> soon cavanaugh is talking directly with david koresh. >> everything's okay. just you and me are talking. that's the main thing. you care for people. >> i had a radio mic in one ear with an agent pleading for his life and i had this guy on the phone who thought he was god. >> checking now our top stories on prime news. in waco, texas, at least four federal agents are dead and 14 are injured in a shoot-out with members of a religious cult. >> it takes negotiators two and a half hours to gain

. >> i want to bring in nbc law enforcement analyst jim cavanaugh from nashville. jim, talk about the left. security you would normally see at a mall of this size. crowded, saturday morning shoppers. what would it be like? >> usually it's just some security officers who might walk the mall in uniform, sometimes they're outside in cars pup know, we've seen them with green lights on their cars, orange lights. in some malls, in some towns they actually hire off-duty police, uniformed police to walk in the mall. and a lot of the cities, you know, put a foot patrol in the mall. that's where our citizens are and that's where we live every day, at the old city street with the old beat cop is hard to beat sometimes because they're present and there and walking. >> jim, i'm going to have to interrupt you. the presser is going on. we'll come back to you. >> we ask everybody to stay with you are and not to pass behind the yellow tape. we want to leave the area behind the speakers as clear as possible. we're asking you not to come around the speakers were cell phones and camera

. >>> let me bring in retired atf special agent jim cavanaugh, also an msnbc law enforcement analyst. thank you for joining us here. >> sure, tamron. >> authorities say this is of low concern, but nevertheless they need to examine the seven suspicious packages in the new york and new jersey area. this speaks of security at the big events, the super bowl and other big events that could be a target for terrorism. this is a time when we're focusing so much on sochi and the security threats there. we know when you have a large number of people, tens of thousands of people gathering in one location in the new york city area, especially, security has to be at its highest, even if it gives the feeling that big brother is watching us. >> right, tamron, exactly. for years we considered in federal law enforcement these super bowls as nationals, special security events. they've been designated by the secret service. they're big events. so there's a lot of security, homeland security, jersey state authorities, local police, federal agents. but the people that want to do us harm or even the people

joining me for tonight's lomotil rumble are chris albany conservative commentator and activist and jim cavanaugh executive editor of the daily caller really color dot com a fine so thank you for both for joining us tonight the u.s. had a fifty three billion dollar budget surplus in december a circle. why is that not like big news and why are conservatives not sure and. because they are banned and the sequester the thing that actually made that happen the slight slowing in the rate of the increase of which spending increases and paul ryan got rid of it as and was applauded by the media for it is moderation in doing so so you're not going to see that continue. i don't think we're going to see it while the in fact the budget that right now has a six hundred billion dollars deficit it's because of the great great budget hawk paul ryan is somehow managed to put that together for us well i'm glad to pick on paul ryan but i don't get why we are all worried about the budget deficit chris when we eleven point seven trillion dollars trade deficit and if those jobs a doctor and this is since nine hundred s

is about great days great politics ok jim cavanaugh detonates we. thank you thank you very much of their fear i'll speak with senator chris murphy from connecticut right after this. place. to place. a little. little. little little. little. cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want. a little. little. little. one of the wonderful strong arming of washington d.c. thank you all the face and i think you're right you know. a pleasure to have you with us here on t.v. today i'm sure. think. everybody if you. could you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy correct call for us. to make you know i'm sorry and on this show we reveal the picture of what's actually going on we go beyond identifying and trying to rational debate real discussion critical issues facing america about him or you know ready to join the movement then welcome to the big picture. go back to the big picture i'm tom hartman coming up in this half hour amer