jim cavanaugh, if you could get a question in at this press conference, what would you focus on in terms of the information that you'd like to know now? >> i want to know if the soldier who committed suicide in the shooting here, was he under any disciplinary problem? was he about to be disciplined for anything? loses his position? was he being reassigned? any conditions, medical conditions, disputes with his bosses, in ig like that that the mill taur could tell you. what you're looking for is, you know, a precipitating event. something that, you know, might have caused the person to shoot all these people. and, you know, that precipitating event could have happened before and then the argument happens today. so i just want to know the answers to those kinds of questions, you know, as a starting point. of. >> and eugene, in terms of what actually happened in the shooting, we would like to know, for example, how many weapons do we think he used? this could have been more than one gun that he was firing. >> absolutely. and obviously clearly to make sure there's nobody else involved, becaus

also with us msnbc law enforcement analyst and former police officer jim cavanaugh.en the reaction, especially since the release of that video? >> thank you for having me, lawrence. the reaction has been very tense to say the least. there's been a lot of anger, a lot of frustration. yesterday's protest was actually the second protest last week. the second on tuesday had nearly 1,000 inhabitants of albuquerque marching in the streets. yesterday's protest was in the range of 300 to 350. and it lasted for the majority of the day, about 12 hours of protesters organically taking over large parts of downtown and the university area to express their displeasure at the rate of officer-involved shootings that we have here in our city. >> and jim cavanaugh, the numbers are extraordinary in albuquerque for a police department that size policing a population of about 600,000. they're way out of whack nationally. that's one of the reasons why the justice department's down there investigating. what we see on that video is a department that is not observing the deadly force rule th

joining me is jim cavanaugh, msnbc analyst, and melissa finch, and ceo of forbes hospital joining me by home. first from the hospital, tell me about the condition of those injured. according to the doctor's report earlier, there were some very serious injuries indeed. deep penetrating wounds to the right abdomen in what the surgeon described, the e.r. surgeon described as a seeming pattern. can you update us on that? >> yeah. i think that's accurate. all of the victims here are male. i know that there were some females involved that may have gone to other facilities, but the victims here at forbes were all male, and they were deep stab wounds in the abdomen. three of them, you know, that required immediate -- taking the patients immediately to the operating room. frankly, they're fairly extensive surgeries. one of the kids is just coming out now. so very serious injuries. and to include the kids that were not taken to the operating room, that were able to be treated in the emergency room, that will continue to stay in the hospital, in some of our critical care areas. >> according to

joining me on the phone is jim cavanaugh. and jonathan tomes is with us as well, former military investigators. thank you for being with us tonight. >> thank you. >> we are learning more by the hour. one thing they have said, trying to figure out the motive. you cannot overlook his history of being treated for depression, anxiety and the possibility that he did have ptsd. is there any point where the psychologist, psychiatrists testing him or treating him say that he has ptsd, but then they decided he could be dangerous to himself or the public. >> right, the mental health professionals have to tell law enforcement if they come across such facts. normally they do. we should be careful because people get under psychiatric care all the time and are not violent or murder people. if they see signs of impending violence, they will notify the police or law enforcement, people close to them. as far as ptsd, i would rather be in a room with 1,000 vets with ptsd then i would with a thousand people picked at random from the phone book

joining me on the phone is jim cavanaugh.d jonathan tomes is with us as well, former military investigators. thank you for being with us tonight. >> thank you. >> we are learning more by the hour. one thing they have said, trying to figure out the motive. you cannot overlook his history of being treated for depression, anxiety and the possibility that he did have ptsd. is there any point where the psychologist, psychiatrists testing him or treating him say that he has ptsd, but then they decided he could be dangerous to himself or the public. >> right, the mental health professionals have to tell law enforcement if they come across such facts. normally they do. >> right, the mental health professionals have to tell law enforcement if they come across such facts. normally they do. we should be careful because people get under psychiatric care all the time and are not violent or murder people. if they see signs of impending violence, they will notify the police or law enforcement, people close to them. as far as ptsd, i would r

joining me now is senior fellow at the southern poverty law center and jim cavanaugh.et me begin with you. the southern poverty law center has had mr. cross on their radar for quite some time but reports indicate that he may have been sort of estranged from his white supremacist networks. how common is it to have a lone wolf extremist? >> well, lone wolfs are the most common that we see from the domestic radical right. there were times when schemes were hatched in smoky rooms with lots of men in them and that kind of thing but that is not true these days. some 20 years ago there was an important essay written on that very idea, that we need to operate as lone wolves because otherwise our organizations will be destroyed. so that is really what we see as the norm and it does appear that frazier glenn miller, aka frazier glenn cross, did act alone in this case. >> jim, let me ask you, how much of his history do federal authorities need to consider in building the case for a hate crime? >> you know, that's a great question, alec, and it really is an easy answer. all of it.

jim cavanaugh, thank you for helping us understand this. appreciate it, sir. >> thank you, rachel. >> thank you. we'll be right back. [ thunder crashes ] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. >>> on october 28th, 1886, president grover cleveland held a huge celebration in new york. a dedication to the statue of liberty, a gift from france, sitting in the new york harbor. the dedication took place on what is now known as liberty island. the celebrations included a water parade with approximately 300 vessels that passed in front of lady liberty. this engraving from the library of congress depicts the new york harbor and the statue of liberty that day. the fireworks you see didn't actually happen, even though they're in the engraving. they were postponed due to bad weather. but bad weather or not, new york city di

joining me now is jim cavanaugh, atf special agent who has worked in kansas city, so, jim, what can you tell us about the kind of investigation that would be done to try to catch these kinds of shooters and what might the motive be? >> we shoulding the motive is going to be unclear right now. maybe the chief will uncover that for us, joy, in the press conference. i think the way they did it, though, is textbook. that's a great police force in kansas city, missouri, by the way. they're just really a top notch outfit. what he did earlier -- what the chief did early and what's so important is he called in, you know, the fbi, the atf, and probably the missouri state troopers, which has a great unit as well, and they all got in there and worked a giant command post to run those leads. then they enlisted public support. they were getting the tips. no doubt neighbors, friends, relatives, somebody saw some odd behavior, gave them a tip where they could put this guy under surveillance. you know, this had is a case that will probably be made through some firearms identification, of the bullets ma

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. >> let's bring in jim cavanaugh, he's a former hostage negotiator. thank you for helping us tonight. appreciate you being here? >> thanks, rachel. >> the last question we were discussing with mr. miklaszewski there. the question about motive, my guess is that you do not approach an investigation like this with motive as your first -- as the first thing that you are trying to diseacertain. but where does an investigation like this start? >> what you're going after when a suspect is deceased. is there any other conspirators or people involved. you play be able to sort that out quick if it looks like a lone actor. then the investigators, this is going to be the forward agency on this is going to be the united states army criminal investigation division called the criminal investigation command. they're extremely good. i worked with them for years. some of the best investigators in the world. they have a big contingent in ft. hood. they're set up just like federal civilian law enforcement agencies. they have special agents in charge. supervisors, agents.

jim cavanaugh, if you could get a question in at this press conference, what would you focus on? >> i want to know if the soldier who committed suicide in the shooting here, was he under any disciplinary problem? was he about to be disciplined for anything? loses his position? was he being reassigned? any conditions, medical conditions, disputes with his bosses, in ig like that that the mill taur could tell you. what you're looking for is, you know, a precipitating event. something that, you know, might have caused the person to shoot all these people. and, you know, that precipitating event could have happened before and then the argument happens today. so i just want to know the answers to those kinds of questions, you know, as a starting point. of. >> and eugene, in terms of what actually happened in the shooting, we would like to know, for example, how many weapons do we think we used. this could have been more than one gun that he was firing. >> absolutely. and obviously clearly to make sure there's nobody else involved, because as it appears at this point, there's nobody el

jim cavanaugh, if you could get a question in at this press conference, what would you focus on? >> i want to know if the soldier who committed suicide in the shooting here, was he under any disciplinary problem? was he about to be disciplined for anything? loses his position? was he being reassigned? any conditions, medical conditions, disputes with his bosses, in ig like that that the mill taur could tell you. what you're looking for is, you know, a precipitating event. something that, you know, might have caused the person to shoot all these people. and, you know, that precipitating event could have happened before and then the argument happens today. so i just want to know the answers to those kinds of questions, you know, as a starting point. of. >> and eugene, in terms of what actually happened in the shooting, we would like to know, for example, how many weapons do we think we used. this could have been more than one gun that he was firing. >> absolutely. and obviously clearly to make sure there's nobody else involved, because as it appears at this point, there's nobody el

jim cavanaugh and micah mccoy, thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. >> thank you. >>> dynasty. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. and let me start tonight with the coming dynastic struggle between hillary clinton, and jeb bush and the former governor of florida. it's the lynn package ins as much as the resumes of the two candidates that either excites or disturbs the country's most politically sensitive citizenry. the plausibility of facing a november 2016 choice between the spouse of one recent president and the brother and son of two recent presidents. what will it look like to historians and those who read history, i have to wonder, to see such bunching of these familiar family names around the turn of the 21st century. was the country so enamor to have had clintons and the bushes as our country's top leaders that they couldn't quite resist them? well, enamored of course is not the general attitude. ask most people about bill clinton, for example, and you'll get a knowing smile that nose all, certainly expects all things a

to discuss all of that, and the culture of school violence, i'm joined by jim cavanaugh, retired agentbeing here. as a former negotiator, what could this situation have been like for the school principal who had to talk down a violent suspect with apparently two knives? >> right. you know, it's vulgar criminality that meets incredible courage. that's what you saw today. this is -- a knife attack is a unique attack. it can be countered by, you know, distance. so when you saw the police chief say it was a good thing, it can also be countered by picking up a chair to keep the person away from you. it's a little different from a firearms attack. a table, a chair can separate you from the assailant. here we have a berserk 16-year-old, and we're going to find out, as the story unfolds, that there were probably some subtle signs. and where we fail, collectively, not anybody in particular, but where we fail collectively is we don't read the subtle signs. as a negotiator you're always looking for the subtle signs that will tell you something is afoot behaviorally or mentally. they're always sub