marq claxton still with us, jim cavanaugh still with us. to the control room, if we can play that video one more time and then i do want to get marq as well as jim's response to what we were just able to show new here on msnbc. let's play that video if we can. >> i think you've had too much to drink to be driving. hands behind your back for me. put your hands behind your back. >> hey! stop fighting. stop fighting. you're going to get tased! >> stop! you're going to get tased! hands off the taser! hands off the taser! [ sounds of struggle ] >> stop fighting! [ gunshots ] >> marq, what did you hear there? >> well, i heard exactly what jim cavanaugh several minutes ago predicted we would hear, and that is routine what should be a very routine kind of police stop or an attempt to handcuff an individu individual. the mild resistance initially followed by some more direct resistance. and the question still remains. the question that the attorney posed early on, that jim had posed, that i'm posing. that is why did you shoot this man? why did you ki

mark claxton still with us, jim cavanaugh still with us. to the control room, if we can play that video one more time and i want to get mark, as well as jim's response that we're able to show that video. >> i think you've had too much to drink to be driving. i'm going to place you under arrest. put your hands behind your back. >> stop fighting. stop fighting. you're going to get -- [ bleep ]. >> hands off the taser. hands off the taser. >> what did you hear there? >> what i heard there is exactly what jim cavanaugh several minutes ago predicted we would who are, and that is routine, what should be observed, routine kind of police-style for an attempt to handcuff an individual, the mild resistance initially followed by more direct resistance and the question still remains. the question that the attorney posed early on, that jim has posed, that i'm posing. that is, why did you shoot this man? why did you kill this man? because nothing we have seen as of yet and i don't see how anything can change this or additional video can change this, the m

i want to bring in jim cavanaugh. foerm special agent in charge. et's get straight to what we're waiting for, and that is the new body cam video. up to 90 minutes from what i'm hearing right now that all of our team members are working on here at nbc news to evaluate and then put forward, to understand what we can actually broadcast. but what might we learn from it based on what blayne understands to be in that video and what might be relevant to the case as we try to understand the outcome? >> well, i thought blayne did a great job describing what was in this body cam video. and really, it's going to be very dull. but there are salient points in the main one being that they did a body search or frisk of mr. brooks. and the reason that's important is he was shot within a couple of minutes. so if the officers knew that he was not armed, they had searched him or even searched his pockets and knew he did not have a firearm, when they were in the struggle with him, you can clearly see that they are fighting over the taser. they're each looking at him pu

i want to bring in jim cavanaugh. jim, let's get straight to what we're waiting for, and that is the new body cam video. up to 90 minutes from what i'm hearing right now that all of our team members are working on here at nbc news to evaluate and then put forward, to understand what we can actually broadcast. but what might we learn from it based on what blayne understands to be in that video and what might be relevant to the case as we try to understand the outcome? >> well, i thought blayne did a great job describing what was in this body cam video. and really, it's going to be very dull. but there are salient points in the main one being that they did a body search or frisk of mr. brooks. and the reason that's important is he was shot within a couple of minutes. so if the officers knew that he was not armed, they had searched him or even searched his pockets and knew he did not have a firearm, when they were in the struggle with him, you can clearly see that they are fighting over the taser. they're each looking at

let's continue our conversation with atf special agent in charge, jim cavanaugh.q claxton who is also director of the black law enforcement alliance. marlon and rashad and danielle are back with us again. i wonder if we can begin with your thoughts on what is happening this evening, particularly the response from the city of atlanta. >> the response in the city of atlanta, you mean the mayor, is consistent with what we are living in, that is you know the minneapolis era, where the governmental response is much more -- is swift and much more punitive toward law enforcement being held to a much higher standard. the response and the statements from the attorneys earlier was quite significant. their exas per rag and frustration you could hear in their voices was perfect in mirroring the entire community, the black and brown people about the processes that put us in this position to fall victim of repeat violence on a regular basis. i thought that was significant. and then the call for police to be more service oriented. we have to move away, shift away -- i agree with

. >>> i'm joined by maya wiley, and jim cavanaugh, a long-time agent and analyst for us.d evening to both of you. we've been discussing the murder charge itself at the top of our show. that is a big deal and rare. the other asserted rarity, which is clearly widely contested was what we just walked through, the d.a. saying the partner had turned state's witness and this brand new two-page release from his lawyer saying i just want viewers to have this, devin is cooperating but has not agreed to turn state witness or in any court hearing. your analysis maya. >> well, given that the officer is facing charges and he's trying to figure out where and how he has room to maneuver that benefits himself, that's probably what is going on here. he wants to be cooperative and see what kind of deal he can cut. that's one possibility. i don't know whether that's happening. but i think this goes to your other part, ari, which is just how rare it is for police officers to agree to testify against other police officers. you know, there's a phrase in the new york city police department that

also joining me, jim cavanaugh, former atf special agent in charge, someone else we turn to when we need these things. and i want to go to you, jim, because one of the things that marq and i were talking about and that's been talked about a lot in the last few weeks about what policing needs to be better at, one of those things is de-escalation. here we have a situation that by all accounts -- and there may be much more information to come -- but by all accounts didn't start as an escalated situation. it was a guy asleep in his car, and there are a lot of people wondering tonight whether this has to be the outcome, a scuffle with police and then a man dead. >> well, you're right, ali. it did not. i mean i was a uniformed police officer before i went in the atf, and i answered many calls like this. this is a routine police call, and marq has as well. and all officers and deputies troopers have answered these routine calls. and this is a bad shoot. this atlanta shoot is a bad shoot. there is no deadly force justification in this shoot. and let me break it down for you this way. when the of