professor gaines: the jim crow order was predicated on violence, was predicated on delegitimizing the issue of civil rights. suggest, cold war gave southern segregationists and people who were trying to protect their way of life from segregation and civil rights, -- desegregation and civil rights, it gave them another way to demonize the movement. the brown decision in 1954, the unanimous decision by the supreme court that basically struck down the supreme court decision plessy versus ferguson in 1896, that provided national, legal sanction for the system of segregation. the brown decision was supposed to desegregate public schools. unfortunately, the court didn't provide any kind of enforcement or implementation mechanism within brown, and that created a political vacuum for the white south to unify and organize what was called massive resistance to desegregation. as part of this massive resistance movement, we heard a lot of familiar ideologies, state's rights ideology against this intrusive federal power, of had invocations narratives of white supremacy, but you also had the cold w

jim crow is not a building that was built, it was something that was always on the move.as fluid, always shifting, changing, always staying one step ahead of integration. perez died more than 50 years ago but the movement is still innovative as it ever was. richard sobel teaches us the importance of outinnovativing perez. i think richard also teaches us the humility as white person and struggle for racial justice, what today we call allyship. and one of the reasons his clients trusted him so much is it was never about him. he never told his clients what to do. he never saw himself as a leader of the movement, he was as one of his colleagues once said a technician, like a plummer, he had a job to do and exceptionally good at it but he worked for the activists and continued and not the other way around and gary was one of those clients. he teaches us the importance of being truly unreasonable in the pursuit of justice. he's taught me a lot about that and there's a reason no one fights dumb misdemeanor cases like his especially in the jim crow south and especially in plaquem

acts ofd been these individual resistance to jim crow, which was a demeaning system. the bus drivers had guns. they could arrest you. this was a humiliating system that people obviously pushed back against but there was not a movement behind them. theher question -- republican party was the party of lincoln. republican party lose support from african-americans before64 and if so, -- 1964 and if so, how did that happen? dr. gaines: that is an interesting weston. -- dr. kingather was the son of a baptist minister, grandson of a baptist minister as well. dr. luther king senior declared nixon,d support richard the republican nominee. he even went so far as to say he was supporting nixon because he always voted republican, but also because he could not support kennedy as a roman catholic dr. king -- dr. king's father eventually changed his brothern jfk and his robert intervened to secure the jailse of dr. king from a in atlanta. -- oldered african-americans in particular of the this history voting for the republican party. the republican party. the republican party was sti

i am interested not because i care about the history of desegregation or jim crow south.ninterested i'm a criminal justice reporter i'm interested in criminal justice but i got into it for the jury trial. but in the end that's the issue that went to the supreme court. that's not nothing but the story is so much bigger than that. the supreme court is as high up as you can go in the legal system with the stakes and this is a landmark case. but it has its tentacles out to all these different parts of american history and southern history and louisiana history that most of which i did not know about graded know about the army of lawyers filing these thousands of lawsuits. how did i not know about that? forget duncan versus louisiana why do i not know what it actually took to enforce civil rights laws? i have taken american history. richards work on unemployment discrimination, all of these groups armed and nonviolent groups all over the south were much more part of the daily lives of civil rights activists and mlk and then nonviolent movement as important as that was. so for

of the jim crow south and they came out of the research using the word caste. the use of this ancient language that described essentially this artificial, arbitrary ranking of human value, in which a society in which a person, an individual was granted standing, respect, benefit of the doubt, access to resources or lack there of, intelligence, beauty, the basis of the category that they been assigned to. that was essentially the caste system and that was language of the anthropologists emerged out of, those who would studied the jim crow south, that is the term i begin to use in "the warmth of other suns." so people who read "the warmth of other suns" may not have realized come may be they are reading closer they would know the word racism persist procest really in the book. the word caste is in the book and people read through it and they begin to understand and absorb the meaning of that word as the experience with the people what they're going to come what they can do it come what they suffered and ultimately what they were escaping. in the great migration.

or a person and the benefit of the doubt that is the cast system for those who have studied the jim crow south they may not have realized that racism per se like the word cast and then they began to read to observe absorb that meaning or what they endured or suffered. and what they were escaping with the great migration. >> think of class and caste and race in the anthropology goal studies and the reason i say this is because those that are deeply inscribed in the text is a role model and who try to make more than five people understand what the hell they are talking about. went to translate that stuff you get deeper and it takes time and you take your time by going to different countries and studying and interviewing different people and using the narrative impetus of a lived experience to articulate what is hard to understand that you make it plain and it's extremely important despite the elegance and the eloquence of the language but the philosophical depth of what you're saying. so to think about the fact and those of racial formation and they say there is a big difference between et

again, is this all a plot to mix the races in a way to undermine jim crow?> yeah, -- >> they sawdust interest. >> yeah, rock and roll was the subject of moral panic in the south and the north as well. they were worried the rock and roll shows even before segregated audiences would create an environment in which black and white youth would socialize. usually and desegregated south, a rock and roll show, there be a black performer on stage and there would be a rope line going through the audience area, it was understood that the whites were supposed to stay on one side of it and african-americans we're supposed to stay on the other side. they wanted to maintain disappearance of segregation. one of the popular artists of the time, one of the members basically said rock and roll is a force against segregation in so far as his experience which after a couple of numbers, that line would go down, and students would be mixing without regard to race. so there is this fear that rock admiral is going to promote race mixing, that's a very explosive fear in the south in

because jim crow was not a building that was built.was something that was always on the move. it was fluid, always shifting, changing, always staying one step ahead of immigration. when perez died whether 50 years ago, that movie stills innovative as it ever was. richard sobol teaches us important of integrating people like perez and the importance of finding that work. richard could never taken that job in new orleans had he not been supported by a nonprofit organization. i think richard also teaches us the importance of humility as a white person and the struggle for racial justice. what today we call ally ship. one of the reasons his clients trusted him so much is it was never about him. he never told his clients what to do, never saw himself as a leader of the movement. he was as one of his colleagues once said technician like a plumber. he had a a job to do and is exceptionally good at it but he worked for the activists in citizens who needed his help, not the other way around. and gary was one of those clients. he teaches us the

curtis'fair skin helped her as she navigated the jim crow south. in a family history by her daughter, she was described as " a blonde, blue-eyed matron of medium height" and in appearance, she was a "blonde jim crow given the laws segregating public spaces in the -- and the southeastern space she traveled, her complexion likely granted her privilege that many of the black women she included did not possess. her physical appearance was frequently commented upon during her lifetime. reporters described her as a woman of culture and beauty and, alternatively, as a woman of mystery. and yet, history suggests the white skin privilege she did enjoy, she used strategically as a tool of racial advancement. thus, to view her solely as -- at face value, to view her recruiting of nurses as a lackey of the mckinley administration desperate to stem the scourge of yellow fever in cuba is to crudely misread the character .nd comportment of her her organization of immune nurses was only a highlight of a public career marked by her remarkable pension around matters

how has the voter suppression, from jim crow forward, treated women differently than? -- differently than men? dr. jones: so, that's a great question. and one of the things that we know as of the lessons of 1920 is that part of what voter suppression aims to do is in a sense, treat women just as it treats men. so, for example, in 1920, there will be those southern states, the southern legislatures that will quickly have to amend their poll tax provisions which had been written as a deposition on man as a requirement of men, now have to be written to now also apply to women. so, there's a way in which voter suppression, historically, has looked to, in a sense, override differences of gender. but there is no question, from my research, that african-american women face a distinct set of risks when it comes to political activism, when it comes to work in the political sphere, when it comes to come out to the polls. there's a denigration that the women of the national association of colored women are all too familiar with. it's part of what binds them together. that is to s

it was kind of during the jim crow days. either you were not accepted in the white, or go to businesses opened in the african-american part of the community, rate you could shop, you could buy clothes, get your prescription filled. whatever you needed, appliances, five and dime stores, restaurants, hats, clothing, shoes. it was all on this particular street. urban renewal came through. there used to be a two-story building right here. on the bottom floor was the drugstore. dora's father started the first chain of african-american drugs doors in the state of alabama. he had five drugstores. my father, john, was his oldest brother. the younger brother had more energy and created five drugstores. my uncle, james, he was a member of a group of neighbors that started a civil right movement. philosophy was they wanted to increase the living standards of african-americans in the community and provide racial reconciliation. in the 1950's, there was a gentleman who was the premier civil rights leader. his whole mission was to registe

pursue better lives in the north to escape the humiliating social etiquette and the violence of jim crow so these two women also shared a devotion to the end and in order st. luke's a secret society founded in the 18 fifties by a free black woman and in 1899 under the leadership of the ambitious lena walker but saint luke will become one of the most successful black controlled and very few largely black woman controlled financial institutions in the country and its peak in the mid- 19 twenties to run the bank and an insurance company and posted 100,000 members and employed nearly 200 the majority of them women and possessed assets that were equivalent to $31 million that one important venture to bring the independent order of st. luke's involved charity jones and lulu robinson and that was a saint luke finance corporation headquartered in harlem and organized in the late 19 teens by the new york district of the independent order, the saint luke finance corporation reflects the opportunity it opened for women in us finance by the 19 twenties so there was a complex tapestry made up of thou

you set the story in the jim crowe south world that has come into d.c., so it is 50 years ago.sisters who runaway from home and then go into world where although there are twins, identical twins, one of them is whiter than the other so she chooses a path where she passes as white. and that is literally the jumping off point of the story. where i won't lie when i first read it i was like this will be a book about racism in the south or slavery or okay, no, no, about jim crow but oh, there will be a white man, no. i haven't read many stories like this, it was a beautiful book about black people tackling the issues of race and colorism and the ideas. why did you choose to frame it like that. it was a really interesting idea. >> thank you first of all. i think for me i wanted to write a story about the nuances within a black community. i think sometimes tbl is a tendency to think that the more interesting story is conflict between black and white people. but for me really, i have always said the most interest ig thing to happen to black people is not necessarily white people. often

finance corporation, institutions that they lead and controlled to challenge the constraints of jim crow, sexism and economic exploitation. they used companies like he sls the two carveout possibilities for themselves in the u.s. economy and society. they understood that notions, ideas about wealth and value and risks were shaped by gender and by race and by your place in the economic ladder. that they were not simply defined these factors. they took an active role in shaping the meaning of wealth and risk and opportunity. and while i certainly acknowledge the limitations they faced because of their race and their gender and their class, i also really want to demonstrate how black women define their value in ways that often went counter to the kinds of messages that they received about the worth and citizens and its economic actors, not just in black communities but also in the larger u.s. economy. we should have a good amount of time left for questions and answers your i think the best way to really understand the st. luke finance corporation is through two women who were vitally import

to pursue better lives in the north to earn more money to face the humiliating social violence of jim crow to find excitement in the big cities of the north. these two women shared a devotion to the independent order. this was a secret society that was founded in the 18 50's by a tree black women. in 1899 the independent order under the leadership of the ambitious maggie linda walker and from its headquarters in richmond st. luke would become one of the most successful black controlled and one of the very few largely lack women controlled commercial institutions in the country. at its peak in the mid-1920s the order ran a bank and insurance company and operated a newspaper with 100,000 members in more than 20 states and employed nearly 200 people the overwhelming majority of them women and a possessed assets that were equivalent to $31 million in modern-day dollars. an important venture that rock independent order involves charity jones and lindsay robertson jones and that was the saint luke finance corporation. it was headquartered in harlem organized in the late 1900s by the district of

chance to earn more money, to escape the humiliating social etiquette and the sexual violence of jim crow to find excitement in the big cities of the north. so, these two women also shared a devotion to the independent order of st. luke's. this was a secret society that was founded in the 1850's by a free black woman for black women. in 1899 the independent order of st. luke's came under the leadership of the ambitious maggie lena walker. and from its headquarters in richmond, st. luke would become one of the most successful black-controlled and one of the very few largely black women controlled financial institutions in the country. at its peak in the mid 1920's, the order ran a bank and an insurance company, it operated a newspaper. it boasted #100,000 members in more than 20 states, it employed easterly-- nearly 100 women and close to 30 million in modern day dollars. when an important venture that brought the independent order of st. luke's both renown and scandal involves charity jones and lulu robinson jones and that was the st. luke finance corporation. headquartered in harlem, and

that did not take on jim crow in the interest of women's votes, for women's votes.instead left it intact and left like women and men to create a new campaign for voting rights, that takes until 1965. that is not the raw material of a celebration for me, even if i deeply admire that black women who waged that fight before 1920 and after 1920. it's just not a moment that i can unequivocally celebrate. >> yeah, i think one of the things i say all the time is like people are just always inconvenient for the nerdiest, that we want the simplistic uplifting narrative about advancement and forward progress in order to have that, so often we have to erase the story of black americans and we have to erase the way that white americans have consistently been willing to compromise the rights of black americans to meet their own agenda. we just have come on going to ask you one more question before we go to the q&a. i couldn't leave the conversation without talk about the roles of black women journalists in the book, which was some of my favorite parts of "vanguard" was you featu

slave labor, segregation, jim crow, civil rights, housing policies, the new jim crow. all of these things continue to happen, keep dreaming and what happens. and i personally believe he talked about in his poem or does it explode, right. i think a lot of what we're seeing happening now, from black lives matter to protests, the explosion of this dream deferred. and we have the opportunity now to begin to help people realize the dreams that was taken and stolen from them. so community input. we had several meetings pre-pandemic. city hall, the o.m.i. lake view, the western addition. we had two virtual meetings with policy link. and then we've and some of the questions will have to really ask and answer where. where do we start? right. do you start at education, economic development, justice reform. there was a lot of discussion just in the community members, meetings around like what the priorities are. are we talking about the lack of the ability to inherit wealth. if folks had actually been given 40 acres, what would that impact have been on their wealth and their inco

i want to atone for slavery, for jim crow, for the industrial complex, and for the ambivalence where there is violence against unarmed black man. can you go from there? i, and manyther and people in his generation when we have these conversations, we have the benefit of hindsight, i recognize that. power,re chanting black it was a purifying phrase that sent ripple effects through many throughout the south. they weren't talking about any type of black violence, they were talking about black sustainability, they were talking about self sustainability, they were talking about building up economic power in their communities, political power in their communities. and so when i look at some of the things they were doing and how equal access to accommodations was somewhat of the endgame for them, i look at the challenges we face today, and what i always tell people is that if that movement had not ended, that movement had simply continued, and someone morphed into the new challenges we face today. whether or not we are talking about breonna taylor or george floyd, tamir rice, the list goes

i'm so glad that you chose that particular passage to grow up in savanna as mentioned where jim crow for people as possible in all realms of life then you write about the daily newspaper your family subscribe to and read before went off to college and before you got the internship in providence. the morning news anything is in the atlanta journal-constitution but you also mentioned the herald and tribune as well as other outlets like that in the world and i wonder if you can talk with us about have a color life in savanna in your memory in your childhood and what has been the most significant changes you have seen or not seen since then? >> thank you for asking the question. in my younger days now we call it mainstream it did not cover the black community. anything that was news in our community had to be covered by the black press. what we saw in the local daily newspaper was crime, negative about black people or arms suspects things that i felt were stereotypical images of black people. in fact when i was editor in montgomery and my later years in greenville south carolina looking

university, the so-called dunning school and their outlook, the intellectual legitimation of the jim crowouth. look what happens when black men were given the right to vote, the disaster of reconstruction, what conclusion to draw from that, they were right to take the right to vote away even though they were violating the constitution. if you gave blacks their basic rights he would have another replay of the alleged horrors of reconstruction. as someone who devoted his life to being part of the historical profession historians in this country played a very important role, spreading racist falls history which helped to legitimate the old jim crow south, denying them of their constitutional rights. once the civil rights movement took place that fell to the ground and scholars have been rewriting reconstruction history and we see it today as a critical moment in the history of american democracy. the tragedy of reconstruction is not that it was attempted but that it failed. and a bunch of books dealing with this even though it focuses on these 3 amendments, you pull back a little and it is a

yes, it is a jim crow period. they are also excluded by the fact that there were not black soldiers at the battle of gettysburg. in 1938, because they are not limiting it just to who fought at gettysburg, there are a number of african-american men and veterans who come to the 75th reunion and they are interviewed. a great collection of photographs at gettysburg of men who came to the 75th reunion. a number of african-americans are present at the ceremony. college housedrg most of the veterans. they had buildings that accommodated them. nina: right. john: peter: you are able to recover a wide range of voices. the differences among people and -- they used the civil war and i was struck by your sensitivity to these complexities. nobody could come away from your a right say, there was way of remembering the civil war -- there was a white way of remembering the civil war and there was a black way. stress, it is a really well-written book. these books can be very challenging to write. it is hard sometimes to sustain a s

there was even a paper written called jane crow and the law extending the jim crow idea to women, to white women in this country. this is not to minimize the fact that women have been discriminated against and that mexican americans, especially along the south, the border areas of texas, face real discrimination, but the analogy was false when it was drawn to black americans. black americans suffered uniquely and we are still living with the consequences of that. that is another thing i wanted to do with the plot to change america, point out this false analogizing. host: mark from missouri, republican line. caller: i have a couple of points and i would like to hear your comments on them. first, i don't think america really should be looked at anymore as a melting pot. i like to look at it more as a salad where the ingredients are mixed together but still retain their individual properties. i think that is a big problem because representative bobby jindal said it best when he said immigration without assimilation is basically an invasion. that's what i think is happening with our coun

it is called jim crow.t doesn't matter whether in one case it is a white person or a black person. it is the same, evil idea. no one should be expected to step and fetch and bend a knee because someone of another race is coming in. shame on them! and frankly, what we really need is to open the schools back up so that these kids can actually get a chance to succeed to. >> jesse: like reading, writing and arithmetic should be the focus instead of all of this race space. >> absolutely. >> jesse: but it is along the same thing you just mentioned. i want to move on to this electoral college situation. this is an assistant law professor at washington "abolishing it would mean that ballots cast by black voters are any boaters for that matter would count the same, but theree damage of the electoral college and other structurally racist political institutions. we can implement vote reparations by double counting ballots cast by all black residents. wow! go ahead. >> i guess -- once again here, he partnered with davi

set their foot on the upper tier of a two-tier caste society that has been shaped by slavery and jim crow and they're able to rise into property ownership and economic prosperity, using tools are denied african-americans. >> host: this may seem a bit like a diversion but it's in the book and it's been in the news of late. the phenomenon of blackness a summit asked me white person, and what is offensive about blackface? your book comments on it a lot. can you tell us about the origins of blackface in this phenomenon, particularly tie to mardi gras but this phenomenon of whites putting on blackface and why that's offensive? >> guest: it's an interesting dimension of our psychological history in the early 1840s i think. there's this enormously popular art called minstrelsy arises and its white people putting on makeup to appear black and performing music that they have taken from or parodied from lack sources, plantation blues and jigs. and blackface, minstrelsy as it is called, becomes the popular former of culture for white americans for century. hundreds of millions of people going to min

there was even a paper written law," "jane crow and the in other words, extending the jim crow idea to women, to white women in this country. this is not to minimize the fact that women have being discriminated against. for example, mexican-americans especially along the south, the , southern border areas in of texas, faced real discrimination, but the analogy was false when it was drawn to black americans. black americans suffered uniquely. and that is something we are still living with the consequences of that. so that is another thing i wanted to do was "the plot to change america," is point out this false analogizing. host: we will hear from martin next in sync peters, missouri, on the republican line -- saint peters, missouri. caller: i would like to hear -- first ofs on all, i don't think america should be looked at anymore as a melting pot. i like to look at it more as a salad where all the ingredients are mixed together but still retain their individual properties. i think that is a big problem, because i think that representative bobby jindal said it best when he said that imm

yes, it is a jim crow period. but they are also excluded by the fact that there were not black soldiers at the battle of gettysburg. but in 1938, because they are not limiting it just to who fought at gettysburg, there are actually a number of african-american men veterans , who come to the 75th reunion and they are interviewed. there is a great collection of photographs, actually, at gettysburg of men who came to the 75th reunion. and a number of african-americans are present at the ceremony. peter: and just a little plug for my college -- gettysburg college housed most of the veterans. not in the dorms, but they had buildings that accommodated them. so for that reunion, it was centered on campus. nina: right. peter: so one of the things, nina, that you do so well in this book is you are able to recover a wide range of voices. the differences amongst people and how they used the civil war as a usable past. and i was really struck by your sensitivity to these complexities. nobody could come away from your book and

it reinforced jim crow laws and redlining.de after early decade it robbed an entire community of opportunity, dignity, justice and recognition. that business is the kansas city star." those were the opening lines of an apology from "the kansas city star." in a series of articles, the newspaper details how it largely ignored civil rights protests in the region and the illegal segregation of schools in kansas city decades after the supreme court's decision in brown v board of education of topeka, kansas. during the civil rights era, the "star's" editor at the time reportedly said, "we don't need stories about these people." in 1968, five black men and a black teenager died in kansas city during unrest following the assassination of martin luther king. at least 4 -- and possibly all of them -- were killed by police but the paper failed to follow up on the killings or call for anyone to be held accountable. "the star" also ignored the cultural significance of african-american icons, including jazz legend charlie parker who was bor

the role of african americans in 75th is we are still involved with jim crow and things like that. things are starting to change a little bit on that front. is that how we can see that as far as african american history is concerned or getting more political clout that the 75th or they are getting more now riding at the 75th? >> i think what's interesting is in the 50th, the veterans who come back to gettysburg actually fought at gettysburg. at least i think that is right. >> correct. >> at the 75th, you know, if they had limited it to only men who had fought in gettysburg, they would have -- >> to. numbers >> would be really small. one thing you have going on in the 50th is because there really were not african american soldiers at gettysburg. i mean yes it's a jim crow period and they probably would've found ways to exclude them but they are also excluded by the fact that they were not black soldiers at the battle of gettysburg. in 1938, because they are not limiting it just to who fought at gettysburg, there are actually a number of african american men veterans who come to the

a man who came up during the jim crow south, came north during the time when many blacks did followinge migratory pattern , theng systemic racism terror of jim crow south, and settled in that new jersey a new york area. ultimately, my father became a research scientist but not before he took on a host of jobs. .ne was a groundsman my father always had a knack for math and science but college was not a possibility for him in the 1950's in richmond, virginia. one fateful day led to an opportunity. my dad was self-taught. he would read textbooks at night. he would go to classes provided at the lab by some ofhe phd scientists. was a part ofhe from breaking work at bell labs. he fought at advocated for black stabbed -- blacks to have opportunity in research. juan: dr. pernell, her father was not the only number of your family afflicted by the coronavirus. could you talk about the experiences of other family members and then your decision to participate in the vaccine trial? >> sure. i have been saying clearly it is so important to put a face to this pandemic. so important to put a face to t

america's jim crow policies were a terrible embarrassment and eisenhower knew this because em bassies across the world would constantly write in saying you ought to know that in europe in france or germany they think that mccarthyism and jim crow are terrible embarrassments for the united states and it undercuts your moral authority to lead the west in the cold war. you should do something about it. so that's an interesting way in which the domestic policies and the cold war policies became knitted together. so that's an example of a domestic crisis that has an international dimension. i think another example, ike was very good on national security policy. he had seen every conceiveable crisis during the second world war. but the sputnik crisis was a big one for him. he anticipated breakthroughs but it was a public relations nightmare that the sowyts got a satellite in space first in 1957. and really, eisenhower handled it initially handled it rather poorly. he wasn't quite sure what to do. the soviets had beat the united states, everyone could see that. so how do you spin that? the w

then you move into jim crow, where accept his punishment for crime, who is determining what a crime is? a crime could be loitering for instance. you see people being arrested in jail for that and you see a whole system of prison labor for higher, many call that slavery by another name you always see these little loopholes being used to exploit again now freed people and free people. but you still see the system that is hard to shake. >> that's the reason we needed the 14th amendment. because after the 13th amendment, the southern states enforced these black codes, which were defacto slavery. breaking unemployment contract was a crime. so the 14th amendment was ratified to give congress the power to fight those black codes. that is what i mean about the radical shift between the states and the federal government. >> and then what happens to the 15th amendment? >> thr 15th amendment is about voting rights. again, it looks great and is a big accomplishment, but then it's years and decades and decades of fighting to actually enforce the 15th amendment. it's not until the voting rights act

americas jim crow's policies were a terrible embarrassment. eisenhower knew this, because embassies across the world would constantly right into the president saying you want to know that in europe, in france, in germany, they think that mccarthy-ism and jim crow are terrible embarrassments for the united states, and it undercuts your moral authority to lead the west in the cold war. you should do something about the. so that's an interesting way in which the domestic or cold war policy became mended together. that's a crisis that has an international dimension that i.c.e. visor had to face. i think another example ike was better on -- >> but the sputnik crisis was a big win for him. he anticipated that there were gonna be breakthroughs on the soviet side, but it was a public relations nightmare for the united states that the soviets got their satellite into space first in 1957. really, eisenhower handle it initially very poorly. he wasn't quite sure what to do. the soviets and beat the united states, everybody can see that, so how do you spin

the jim crow were a terrible embarrassment. embassies would write into the president and say you ought to know that in europe, france or germany, they think that mccarthyism and jim crow are terrible embarrassments for the united states and it undercuts your moral authority to lead the west in the cold war. you should do something about it. so that's an interesting way in which the domestic policy and the cold war policy became knitted together. that's an example of a domestic crisis that has an international dimension that eisenhower had to face. i think another example, you know, ike was very good on national security policy. he had seen every conceivable crisis during the second world war. the sputnik crisis was a big one for him. he anticipated there was going to be breakthroughs on the soviet side. there was a public relations nightmare for the united states that the soefviets got a satelle into space first in 1957. and really eisenhower initially handled it rather poorly. he wasn't sure what to do. the soviets had beat th

in fact, we all know this is not just a southern problem, it is not just a jim crow problem. cementedicies had been by the policies of the federal government. laws passed by this congress giving some accommodation to shite southern segregationist who were in the house and senate at the time. bill,even the g.i. cemented inequalities that have lasted for decades. initially to you, chairman powell. as we go forward. i do not want to look back. as we are coming out of this pandemic, we have real opportunities to address these inequalities in health care and the economy and so many areas. what can the fed do as we come out of this economy? what strategies would you recommend to address the inequality we see in the economy , whether it is minority businesses or individuals? chair powell: these are long-standing inequalities over a very long time. there is a real concern we have at the fed that the pandemic will make that worse. overrepresented in the service industry jobs that were so heavily affected by the pandemic. there is a concern things will get worse. the last couple of yea

included in ashley from like when i was nine years old and also that this is happening and like jim crow with so many different kinds of weight. but one of the toughest things about it they tried to make you hate your skin and make you doubt your self-worth. and on top of that it when you make it out anyway and then they tried to use your story anyway and then they tried to use your story of the time when you told your story differently pull yourself up by the bootstraps version but that was actually harmful to other people who are still struggling because they would say you made it, what's wrong with everybody else? and that change the way you now tell your story. >> yes. absolutely. so i try to tell people time and time again i am not a self-made man. only because i was tougher than everybody else and smarter than everybody else because that's not true. so this is what actually need to survive and what we actually needed was for free lunches like cheese from the government and the powdered milk and programs and so many other things. like i needed all of those things. and also that i go

in voter suppression -- jim crow and voter suppression. what is the process for changing that so that the popular vote is more -- host: thank you, color. go ahead. -- thank you, caller. go ahead. guest: i think we have seen a number of efforts to change the electoral college. general public opinion polls are against the electoral college. 60% or more of people in many polls would say if we started all over, maybe we should have the popular vote. the way of changing it i think -- the traditional way is quite difficult. that would be amending the constitution. we have spent a couple hundred years with various efforts to try to do that. that requires two thirds of each house of congress, three quarters of the states. that is a high hurdle. it requires both parties to buy into this. i do not think there is an appetite for that sort of change. there is a more recent reform effort, which is using the electoral college mechanisms to bring in the national popular vote. let us call the national popular vote initiative. they are asking individual st

so what does it mean to suggest that we live in the afterlife of slavery or the afterlife of jim crow in is to suggest that there has been some indication of change and progress, but you know as baldwin says america is always changing but never changes. one way to parse that is the true lie of american history is what i call democracy and black. and that is this belief that white miami matter more than others and that belief obtains no matter the material conditions. it's still organized and distributes the advantage and disadvantage in this society. >> what should be know about james baldwin, or as you call him, jimmy? >> guest: my goodness. it's a bit hubris to call him jimmy but he has been in my head for almost 30 years now. what should we snow? a couple of things. one, he is an extraordinary example of self-creation. when you think about being born in harlem north suing hill but the ghetto of harlem, coming of age in the aftermath of the catastrophe of the great depression and welcoming himself into becoming one of the world's greatest writers. an extraordinary story. when we ste