jim dobbs is the -- what is this about, why did you read it? >> it goes back to my coming to terms with the fact that my parents didn't make it in the marriage. i had to come to terms with that, and then they were separated for a long time. they never lived together again. after i had gotten started in the east, my mother had been -- she took pictures, and she was a photographer are you coming back from one of her trips, she stopped to see my dad and how awful -- in palo alto. the call i got was that i want to tell you that you're father and i have forgiven each other. what i did to free me to begin with as they had always allowed me to have a good relation with the other. i never counted against either one. i got such a freedom of it. i began to think of it more and more and read about forgiveness not as a theory but as an emotional dynamic 3-d but emotional dynamic is -- and the question i was asking, how do you realize forgiveness so that you feel forgiveness? how do you feel forgiven and how do you help other persons feel forgiven? i came u