rat out my friend jim edgar. he said everybody thinks he's a wonderful warm person but around us he's demanding and not in the same way and our congress, ed mat b madigan because secretary under bush until clinton beat him. but ed was friendly and nice but you never know what he was thinking. he didn't come to you in the same way friends do so in answer to that question i think maybe public figures have to be more guarded in their relationships. >> i think now that i'm a roosevelt person, part of the time, the comment one hears most about fdr in our circle of roosevelt historians at hunter college is that roosevelt's magic was agreeing with everybody and making everyone feel that his or her opinion was the most important and the last word and never disagreeing and never saying no. no one ever heard him say no to any request or suggestion. he didn't pay attention to them when they had gone but he didn't say no. [ laughter ] >> the great line about -- i can't remember who said it but my old friend jeffrey ward told