adam: jim gilliam who created nation builder is a really fascinating person.grew up in a christian fundamentalist family. he belonged to jerry falwell's churches. and he went to liberty university in virginia. and then, when he was at school he became ill and got sick and his mother at the time also got sick. and he ended up losing his faith and going to work in software. he was always kind of a techie. he started to work for a startup. carol: you know, when i started reading your story, adam, i thought, this is going to be for outliers, big campaigns are not going to get involved, but actually big campaigns like donald trump's are using this. adam: campaigns like barack obama's in 2008, 2012, really, the build mostly they spend a , lot of money to build customized software to do all of these different things. and so here, what nation builder has done, is sort of build a turnkey approach to this. it is not as sophisticated as what you can build with an unlimited budget that a lot of these presidential campaigns have, but it does give you a lot of these capabil