you will see all of that come into play here. >> jim kavanaugh, there's a large range of outcomes with the suspect at large. how important is the guidance from law enforcement to the community to avoid any potential hostage situations or additional deaths? >> it's critical. this mass murderer, on a homicidal rampage, is different than an escaped prisoner like frank was describing a few weeks ago in pennsylvania. that's a person who wants to get away. they are looking for the border. they just want to get away from everybody. they don't want to confront anybody. they are not looking to kill people. they are looking to escape. they might kill someone for the means of escape. that's a lot different than a person who shows up at the bowling alley strapped to the nines with his military rifle and his scope. he has got virtual magazins around him. he goes to a second and massacres. that's a different set of circumstances that law enforcement and citizens in new england are dealing with. this guy is extremely dangerous. he could be dead. he could have been spent after that second spree, shot

joining us now is retired atf special agent in charge an msnbc analyst jim kavanaugh. jim, this is obviously a fluid situation. we do not have a lot of details right now. but what is the -- the warnings we are getting from law enforcement, for residents of lewistown, maine, to stay inside and lock their doors, what does that tell you about the gravity of the situation? >> it is a very active, chaotic situation, even for the police and commanders on the ground here, alex. they don't know if they have one shooter, who has traveled between locations, or there is multiple shooters involved. they have to sort that out. we have -- you have the image of the shooter. the tactical rifle, a big sign on it. it looks like he has maybe even some extra mags in these btu pants they are bulging out of the side. -- can cause devastation and death in proximity and the bowling alley, in a walmart distribution center. so, it's a very dire situation and everybody does need to stay sheltered in place, listen to the police, report anything. shots, sightings, anything. so they can get to this

bring into our conversation, before i wrap for the night, retired atf special agent in charge jim kavanaugh. jim, more were learning about this man, his firearms expertise, his background in the military. his mental health issues in the past. what were you thinking about? >> well, just a few things. you know he's a firearms instructor and you've already reported he's a firearms instructor and a military unit he's attached to or in a civilian role. but either way, a firearms instructor is a person who's very, very confident with his shooting. very, very close to his weapon. can easily work, feels comfortable with. it becomes part of. them confident shooters, accurate shooters. and in the case like amassed spray killer, a devastating shooter. so this guy is extremely dangerous with his ability to shoot accurately at a distance. take on officers and agents who may confront him. his whereabouts is interesting, the discussion your heaven with jonathan and tom. yes, he could be on foot. he could be. but he also could not be. if you're out, you've traveled between a couple of scenes, killing every

and you can see as my friend jim kavanaugh, great legendary atf supervisor, it does look like he has rounds, magazines, as jim said it could be a soda can, could be something else. he might have a jacket in the vehicle as he went from place to place and throw it in the back. the bottom line is while he's out, he is dangerous. and i think it makes sense how the command center is setup. you're going to have multiple agencies and people who bring different skills to this, hostage negotiators, people who are sharp shooters, other types of individuals, but they have to be on the same communication mode, and they also have to be under some kind of shared joint command because this is going to extend across the distance. even the fellow in pennsylvania. like in 2015 the person who escaped from a new york correctional facility, they were found to have stayed in bungalows. o there are a lot of areas and particularly now it's only in the low 50s. it's going to get colder later in the week, but right now it's in the low 50s. he might have a jacket, he might be laying in place somewhere. good you

and you can see it, as my friend jim kavanaugh, legendary atf supervisor, it does look like he has roundsm said, could be a so taken, could be something else. but he might have a jacket in the vehicle. as he went into place to place through it in the back. the bottom line is that while he was out, he is dangerous. and i think it makes sense, as previous guest said, have a command center set up. you are going to have multiple agencies, and you're going to have people who bring different skills to this, hostage negotiators. people who are sharp, other types of individuals. but they have to be on the same communication mode and they all have to be under some kind of shared or joint command. because this is going to extend across a distance. and what i think is when you have this sparsely populated, even the fellow from pennsylvania, his plan was to escape. i think in this case, he can find multiple places like the folks in 2015 who escaped from new york correctional facility, they were found to have stayed in bungalows. so there are a lot of areas, and particularly now, it's only in the low

joining me now, nbc's george celise in maine, jim kavanaugh and former fbi assistant director frank figliuzziorge, i want to play what we heard from one of the tactical commanders in maine about the tips that they have been receiving. >> i can't keep track because there's so many. there's been a continuous stream of tips that have come in. we have been handling -- our local community has been calling with tips, everything from -- you name it. it's been anything. any tip that small may be something big. >> tell us about the focus of the police and federal agents today. focusing on the river, among other places. >> yeah. good afternoon. officials saying they have irons in the fire. this is one of them. this is here in lisbon. local, state and federal agencies have been here all morning. this is the area where robert card left his car. what you have are officials in the water. there's boats in the water at this hour searching this river. we saw a helicopter flying not ago. it has been makin rounds, flying low. almost to the treeline here with thermal imaging. this is what we have been seeing her

jim kavanaugh. clint. talk to us about what we know so far. in the last 25 minutes, way to have pictures and name for the person of interest. >> yeah, stephanie. and our work, when i came on air, we were just trying to figure out what might possibly be the motivation. but always looking on the spectrum. is it individual motivation to ideological notification. would your hurt their, or it appears this person is known to law enforcement. they have identified him. they have tracked out the vehicle and trace it to him. they have put out a name and have also already started talking about mental illness and this person, potentially, haven't mental illness problems. the other thing that is just important to note here, and stuck out, you know, immediately, hearing what jim his to say about it. this person seems to know how to handle the weapon. that was immediate when we look at those pictures that report out. not wearing a mask. not wearing body armor. we have seen a lot of instances of persons lately, as you just bring polyamory. >> clint, i'm, let