jim kavanaugh, as well. we are going to hand off this hour.ue, jonathan caper. he will pick up this breaking coverage on msnbc at the top of the hour. i will see you tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern for more news. re news. marlo thomas: my father founded saint jude children's research hospital because he believed no child should die in the dawn of life. in 1984, a patient named stacy arrived, and it began her family's touching story that is still going on today. vicki: childhood cancer, it's just hard. stacey passed on christmas day of 1986. there is no pain like losing a child, but saint jude gave us more years to love on her each day. marlo thomas: you can join the battle to save lives. for just $19 a month, you'll help us continue the lifesaving research and treatment these kids need now and in the future. jessica: i remember as a child, walking the halls of saint jude, and watching my sister fight for her life. we never imagined that we would come back. and then my son charlie was diagnosed with ewing's sarcoma. vicki: i'm thinking, we alread

let's bring in jim kavanaugh, he is a former atf special agent in charge, and nbc news terror analystabout what police are likely doing right now, how do you negotiate with someone who has allegedly killed three people and knows they are going to have to face the consequences for that? how do you talk to someone like that? >> well, you treat them with respect, reverend al. you try to make the human connection with them, build trust, you know, we call it attunement. try to calm him down, so he can make a reasoned decision to save his life, and not kill himself, or charge out and be shot by the police. it just takes some listening skills. it takes some classic negotiation techniques. but, in any essence, it is humanity, and this guy is all alone. he basically wiped out his family today. she is barricaded, he knows he is wanted for murder, he doesn't have anybody. so, the negotiator has to be that somebody that can be his lifeline for a future life. many people, even in such dire circumstances, still get talked out. so, you never give up. i think they are trying to do that, but it is goi

we are now going to bring in jim kavanaugh, a former atf special agent in charge, and a nbc news terrorism analyst. jim, talk to us about what police are likely doing right now. how do you negotiate with someone who has allegedly killed three people and knows they are going to have to face the consequences for having done that? >> what you have to do, jonathan, is drop the emotional level. nobody can make a reasonable decision if they have emotions that are running very high. of course, andre is in a murder spree this morning, killed three people, assaulted more. probably in a very manic state. if you are going to be able to say civilly negotiate with him, you will have to get him down, get that emotion down so you can try to reason with him, maybe to save his life. we saw some action just a few minutes ago with a tactical operator on the porch roof. he broke the window on the left side room, what we call break and rake, he broke the window, raked the glass out, and he made an entry into that room. the way he did it, you can assume that andre is not in that front left room. of course, they