jim messina and i can tell you that it's a big umbrella party, that's not always how it works. but is that the thing you wish democrats were doing more, and if so, what do you think as somebody who has worked in republican politics for so long. is the effective message that you would like to hear them to kind of win over some of those swing voters or moderate republicans who aren't going to support trump? >> i would like to see somebody out there banging the hammer. maybe messina can do it. i think that's not his nature. that's why we like joe biden, that is why he was elected, because he was going to unite the country. he could do somebody out there driving this contrast for him, that is one thing i'd like to see from the democrats next year. and i discussed the haley vote. i think that this is one, how can we bring some of these new ex republicans off the sidelines. i'm kind of burned, here but can we win over mike pence may be to not vote, not vote for trump? or chris christie? who can be recruited to be a surrogate from that world. and i also think that reaching out to the

i laugh when i hear jim messina. we're not the problem.ly that we're looking at running a bipartisan unity ticket because the american people are so fed up with the two parties and don't want to choose between trump and biden again at historic levels. but why the democrats are turning their fire on no labels and not looking at the problem they have with president biden running for re-election, i don't get. because really if you look at the polling real clear politics average, trump is further ahead of biden than he's ever been for the next year's election and he's beating him in five of the six swing states. so at no labels, does not present the threat to re-electing the greatest threat to president trump. the greatest threat i'm afraid is from my old friend, joe biden, who is this year just not selling with the american people want to buy. i think the democrats will be better to deal with that rather than slashing away at no labels. >> neil: it depend on who is on the no labels ticket. obviously, you go for the top of the ticket being one

and jim messina, former white house deputy chief of staff for president obama. the context for the comments by donald trump and how are the republican candidates reacting? >> so donald trump is certainly no stranger using deeply inflammatory and racist language when it comes to immigrants and what he said over the weekend in new hampshire. did indeed echo sentiments voiced by hitler and mind you, this comes as he in the same speech praised tyrants like viktor orban, president xi of china, kim jong-un of north korea and indeed, putin. he loves to associate himself with strong men and he is put forth a pretty draconian proposal to handle immigrants here and the biden campaign snapped back quickly calling it out for what it was, which was echoing some of the worst figures of this previous century. but we've gotten largely silence from his republican counterparts including governor desantis on with us on "morning joe" this morning vying for the republican nomination as well. he kind of stepped around it and didn't really condemn the former president for his harsh an

joining us now is jim messina, campaign manager for barack obama's 2012 re-election campaign and johnch, 2016 republican presidential candidate as well. thank you, both, for joining us. lots to talk about here. i'm going to try to do rapid fire. do you make of those attacks on haley versus trump who is clearly leading by wide margins right now? >> yeah, ana, you're exactly right. the problem with this fourth republican debate is that no one's going after the front runner. they continue to not want to go hit the king and until you go hit the king, you're not going to beat him. and so, again, they went after haley. i thought she played pretty good defense. i think it's fine, but we've had four debates and donald trump continues to be the winner in every single poll he goes up after these debates because there's no contrast, and so last night, again, we had the same thing, which from a political perspective is just sort of malpractice. >> governor, trump wasn't there physically. he's always a factor, though. here's how chris christie and vivek ramaswamy took that on. >> this is the probl

among them, a vocal critic is president obama's former deputy chief of staff, jim messina. me read part of the argument he's making against what you're doing. quote, the idea that a unity ticket featuring a republican and a democrat could somehow produce a nominee with a clear path to victory is worse than political fiction. the group behind it no labels is pushing a dangerous lie that would serve to put trump back in the white house. he's calling it dangerous lie, congressman. i wonder what you want to say in response. >> well, a couple things. you know, the polls, we have seen this for month now. the polls show if it's one-on-one, trump is going to beat biden. we're trying to provide voters a choice. that's what a democracy is about. now, dccc and rnc are against what we're doing. they like the game the way it is, just the two of them in a one-on-one match. we see this dysfunction. we see all the problems back in washington. they can't do a budget, we're looking at another shutdown in a couple weeks. with no action there. it's time to see a little bit of a difference, and

former obama campaign manager jim messina doesn't think a third-party candidate has a chance of winning in 2024. watch this. >> any pretensions that any third party has a chance is completely bs. who do they take votes away from, we can't have a third-party candidate taking away votes. it's a silly idea run by people who want to make money off of politics. my message to voters is wake up and realize you don't want to throw your vote away. david: jason chafe its joins me now. does this hurt biden? >> it hurts biden more than anybody else. one of the smartest minds of politics, i don't think there's a third-party candidate that has the dynamism to go out and win but will they be a spoiler? they could. in this case the only one upfront out there is mister kennedy. kennedy would pool votes clearly from the biden side, he's more liberal, has been a democrat his whole life, don't doesn't find room in the democratic party. david: i will push back a little bit because i do know some libertarians who have voted conservative who find rfk appealing particularly because of what he said during the p

this prompted, you know, a back and forth with jim messina, the former top aide to ronald reagan-- ilogize, barack obama. i'm sorry, it's the weekend. and a middle ground way out. i want you to respond to this. >> any sort of pretention that any third party has any chance here is completely b-s so the question, who do they take votes away from? in states like arizona, joe biden won by 11,000 votes, georgia around the same number. we can't have a third party taking away votes. >> and the greatest threat, i'm afraid for my old friend joe biden, who is this year just not selling what the american people want to buy. neil: what do you think of that back and forth on a third party. depends who the other candidates are? >> it does depend who the other candidates are, but when you look at the candidates out there right now you've got rk, jr., west, and others, and pulling away from joe biden and numbers head to head between joe biden and donald trump, donald trump is winning. when you look at head to head with the five third party candidates out there, it really does hurt joe biden and i th

. >> joining me now is jim messina and his former campaign manager and fred upton. democrats say, why is he running? they think that some of the number of governors could be a better candidate against donald trump. was he opening the door at all? was this just thinking out loud at a fund-raiser, no cameras present? it raised a lot of eyebrows. >> he was not opening the door. joe biden is going to be our nominee. there's lots of people you and i know who would love to run for that office. the truth is, they are all unproven. with donald trump, we know joe biden has beaten him the first time. he will beat him the second time. we can't take the risk of an unknown candidate. these folks sometimes just aren't ready for primetime as we saw with sarah palin, dan quayle, with a bunch of things you see right now with desantis, who was everyone's national candidate and the spotlight was too great. donald trump admitted that he would be a dictator on day one. we just can't take a risk for that. that's why joe biden ran the first time and it's why he is running the second time.

jim messina. first debate where it looks like mitt romney's race to lose that happened. he lost. that was then. the latest on this push for a task force in the red sea to at least stop all of the companies from leaving that area for fear of the houthi rebels after this. joanna gaines: discoveries at saint jude helped this kid beat cancer at age two. marget: and now this kid has three kids. chip gaines: and that's what we do at saint jude. subject: give thanks for the healthy kids in your life and give a gift that could last a lifetime. only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner. our financial planning tools and advice can help you prepare for today's longer retirement. hi mom. that's the value of ownership. switch to shopify so you can build it better, scale it faster and sell more. much more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. hi! need new glasses? get more from your benefits at visionworks. how can you see me squinting? i can't! i'm just te

david: -- into that, former obama campaign manager jim messina says there is no path to victory withgoing to get donald trump elected more easily. does jason chaffetz agree with that? he is here to talk about that. and global energy prices jumping as major oil companies halt service through the red sea. we've got that report and what to do about it with our own larry kudlow coming up. ♪ ♪ got that real big energy. ♪ got that big, big energy ♪ ♪ students... students of any age, from anywhere. students in a new kind of classroom. ♪ using our technology to power different ways of learning. ♪ harnessing ai to plant new beginnings. ♪ so when minds grow, opportunities follow. you know what's interesting these days? bitcoin. look for bitwise, my friends. (baby cooing) - [joe] sacrifice. surrendering your desires for the sake of someone else. sometimes sacrifice is tedious. sometimes it's rewarding. and sometimes it takes everything you've got. (man yelling) - i love you guys. - i love you too. - be careful son. (rotors whirling) (beeping) - [joe] sacrifice. surrendering your desires for the

and i was really struck by this quote from a different new york magazine piece from jim messina, whorage swing voter thinks about politics for minutes a week, and are not waking up for 12 months. one fifth of americans are not -- only one fifth of americans are convinced the trouble even be nominated. will this kind of maybe will help shape people's views about who should be nominated? and who should not? i don't know, what do you think? >> look, i think it's pretty clear, trump's gonna be nominated. it doesn't take a political genius to look at the polls and see that. i think what this tells us and reminds us, is that this is gonna be an incredibly abnormal election. and that there's going to be a lot of twists and turns, there's gonna be a lot of court activity. a lot of things are gonna remind us of how extreme and authoritarian donald trump's. and it's not gonna be normal campaign with the two people go out and campaign make their case and then of debate and then we vote. we are gonna be confronted with basically a referendum on whether americans are okay with donald trump return

but let's turn now to jim messina. he was the campaign manager for president obama's 2012 re-election. jim, different conversation that you and i were planning on having this evening. obviously, that are is the nature of breaking news. i want to get your thoughts initially on what you think about this. i mean, i asked hugo lowell a couple minutes ago whether or not this would change the legal strategy how jump legal or the trump world's going to be doing this, but how does this change the political strategy for somebody like donald trump? >> well, look, in the short term, donald trump, this will help him in the primary. every time a normal court has a ruling, it seems to help him, which is absolutely crazy for me. but it is very true. on the long term, this plays exactly into the biden campaign narrative. what they will say look at the past month, meaning he admitted he would be a dictator. this weekend he talked about immigrants poisoning the blood of the country. now he is being thrown off the ballots because of his i